On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:36:16 +0100, "David Skelton"
It simply cannot be 'significant' though. If it were, engines on the
extended oil change plans would be failing. There are loads of 320d
and 520d fleet cars in the UK and they won't be on short oil changes
or gently driven or on low mileage.
I wouldn't touch a car that only did 3000 miles per year because I'd
be thinking there was a good chance of high water content in acidic
I've never had to do that on any car I've owned/driven in the last 30
years. Why have you needed to do it?
I'd challenge the use of the word 'need' there. A good common rail
diesel (of any vintage) that isn't too high powered shouldn't smoke
very much at all. Unfortunately, there's a crowd who insist 'diesels
are smoky' due to cars/lorries/busses from a while back and
politicians have got involved and..
At this point, it's your desires against BMWs claims.
20 years ago, I knew a chap that drove his Fiat for 80,000 miles
without an oil change. If junk like that could survive such extreme
oil abuse (rust eventually killed that car) then I could *believe* a
modern long life oil in a modern engine doing 30,000 miles without
harm as long as it was done with long distance, oil-friendly driving.
I used to do oil changes on my cars but I didn't find it an
interesting or satisfying job so now I pay servants to do it for me.
Nevertheless, you do sound a bit paranoid on the whole issue. How long
are you planning to keep the 335d? I have a suspicion it won't be long
enough to see any benefit from your oil change regime.
Still, when you sell a car to someone else, it's good to know that you are
handing them over something that will treat them well rather than something
with hidden problems due to your lack of maintenance.
It's just polite to treat machinery well.
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
"Need" is indeed needed. The filter gets the small particles that you can't
see. PM10 means "Particulate Matter smaller than 10 microns". Just because
your eyes can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist and are dangerous.
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:23:36 +0100, "David Skelton"
Having done that, it would appear that the swirl flaps themselves and
the local actuator are not in contact with engine oil so I'm somewhat
confused how the swirlflap issue relates to engine oil.
Yep..sounds exactly like my trip to work.
Not in the UK.. :-(
Last time I saw much of that was years ago when some manufacturers
toyed with direct injection diesel before common rail. Economical but
So can petrol cars fitting those criteria. Indeed, it's petrol exhaust
that I find more irritating to my nose and lungs than diesel these
days (even before DPFs).
There's a difference between poetic licence and lying. BMW also have a
reputation to try and protect. You don't sell as many cars as possible
by destroying your reputation as a builder. Ask, Lancia.
They also invented common rail diesel but it would be a brave man that
said Fiat engines were better than BMW ones. As far as I know, Fiat
gearboxes and electrics are ok these days. Certainly, from personal
experience, my last Fiat 5 speed manual was a significantly sweeter
box than my current 6 speed BMW one. Aren't Fiats galvanised now too?
There's certainly a truth in there.
I'm sorry to say I had to look that one up. I'm glad to see no
evidence of it in your writing!
Recirculated exhaust gasses containing crankcase oil vapours, over time clogging
EGR valve and building up on the flaps.
Crankcase oil unable to function correctly because of contamination due to the
car is driven, and extended oil changes.
Also, oil baking on the turbo spindle and creating seal leaks when the engine is
down without an idling period after a 'blast'. Even synthetic oil will carbonise
gets too hot. I have seen turbo charger casings glow red hot, that is above 700
But does your radiator cooling fan run at the time when the car is not
Supermarket fuel is what I mean...
I see it every day down here ....
Not all diesels have DPFs today.
But, I agree, old carburettor engines in poor tune, or with too much 'choke'
BMW do lie in their advertising:
In electrical engineering terms, Brake Energy Regeneration is nothing like what
happening with BMW Efficient Dynamics.
"BMW also have a reputation to try and protect", yes, that is why they advise
you how to
run-in their engines.
But most of their reputation is in the minds of the public due to effective
Just like VW, whose vehicles are not as reliable as people are made to believe.
That is not a statement about BMW reliability, but about brand perception.
You are twisting my responses, I did not write that they are better than BMW
wrote that they make reasonable engines.
The Fiats I have had had failed electronic parts and gearboxes, and rust too.
Yes, because most info out there relates to kids, not mid-forty year olds. We
learn, but differently. I delete more than I let stay in my posts.
I'm am not worried about admitting mental illness. I have seen many types of
cyclists', most of whom are out of their depth.
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:51:20 +0100, "David Skelton"
No..in a diesel, oil in the exhaust will be entirely made up of
unburnt diesel not engine oil. Any tiny amounts of engine oil will be
completely and massively irrelevant compared to the unburnt diesel oil
Indeed but I'd suggest that isn't the fault of the oil and more the
impossible situation it's put in by an ignorant driver. I've never had
any turbo problems. My last car had a VNT turbo and used
semi-synthetic 10W40 - no oil-related problem ever. Stopping an engine
with a red hot turbo is abuse in my books. However, leaving your
engine idling in the UK can be illegal so I would not expect this
advice in vehicle instruction manuals.
I would be prepared to believe someone who told me my fan never
operated to cool the engine. It never did on previous non-aircon cars
I owned - even in the traffic I have to deal with. It's not easy to
tell with the 325d as it doesn't have an engine temperature gauge and
I run the A/C all the time which uses the fan quite a lot.
There's far too much smoke and mirrors in that debate. I treat fuel as
fuel and get it wherever and whenever is convenient and cheapest.
Supermarkets here tend to compete with local oil company franchises
and the bizarre result is that I can regularly get Shell cheaper than
Tesco round here. I've not been convinced by the cheap/expensive fuel
debate - particularly for diesel.
Maybe I should try specsavers..
What's a carburetor? Last time I had one of those was in..er..1980?
Fuel injection when the engine is cold goes for my nose.
Don't they recover energy from the alternator on some models when
braking? On mine ED seems to be an indicator that tells me to change
up a gear at 1300rpm..
Actually I haven't thought of VW as reliable for over 10 years now. In
the same way, I don't believe Merc quality has been that good for a
number of years either and Audi appear to be slipping. It's just that
owning a BMW, I do genuinely get the feeling that someone at BMW cares
just a little more than the equivalent person at other German car
No. With you're reply, you implied that the reason the Fiat engine
went 80,000 miles without an oil change was because they made
reasonable engines. However, from what you've been saying earlier
about BMW engines, you don't think a BMW engine would cope with that
Not recently though?
LOL..maybe you're a bit more normal than you think.
Here's one who isn't..ride with it..some of his stuff is staggering.
No, you are wrong...
Engine oil enters the combustion process from worn rings, worn valve stem oil
PCV system, thrashing the engine from cold, and from damaged / worn turbo seals
especially in engines run on the incorrect oil spec.
This oil burns differently to diesel oil and leaves carbon deposits behind.
Lots of manufacturers (including Alfa on the 1.9d) used the Garrett GT1749V
the problems BMW had with them on the 320d, before the modification in the early
Leaving the car with the engine running and unattended on the public road is
law in the UK, and recently, leaving the engine idling unnecessarily has
appeared in the
Highway Code to be illegal if the car is not under some sort of repair or
whilst stationary on a public road (rule 123).
It has been the advice in some car handbooks I have had. But I would not
the engine running for longer than 3 minutes anyway. That is enough time for the
spindle to shed speed and heat loading.
I bet it did
More people live in the Home Counties than in the whole of Scotland.
I would find it hard to believe the traffic could be worse where you are.
For some time now, temperature gauges have not indicated the actual engine
but what the ECU thinks you need to know, so to speak.
I never use A/C.
I have breathing difficulties that are made worse by cooled dry air, and it
It is certainly not
You will if you continue to use supermarket fuel extensively.
Shell is cheaper here (southern England) than some supermarkets too.
But in my own tests (petrol), I did not get a good MPG using Shell petrol. I get
better with two others.
There are still plenty of carb cars down here.
Recover energy from the alternator ?? The alternator does not store energy. The
alternator does not create energy. It converts kinetic energy from the engine
burning fossil fuels) into electricity, and supposedly, on the over run. There
never be enough energy converted from the vehicle's kinetic energy to charge the
using the time spent braking only. One is not braking for long enough.
Only when the battery is nearly fully charged will it only charge only on the
not just when braking. It is monitored by the IBS and instructed via the Can-Bus
charge to deliver.
Most of the time, in traffic with your A/C on, ICE on, lights on, wipers on if
raining, brake lights on (if your are in breach of the Highway Code while
the battery wil be recieving charge from the alternator.
Brake Energy Regeneration: ( this is driving a motor in reverse bias as a
what BMWs do.
Active Aerodynamics: some BMWs have a device that looks like a Venetian Blind
the grill to speed the engine warm up time, and to reduce the co-efficient of
higher speeds. The vents vary their opening according to how much heat the
Lightweight Engineering: obviously to reduce weight, improving driving dynamics
reduce fuel consumption.
Electric Power Steering: to reduce parasitic drag on the engine when not
Servotronic varies the amount of assistance given.
Gear Change / Optimum Shift Indicator: you know what that is for, manual 'boxes
Auto Stop Start: manuals (and, initially, 4 cylinder cars only). Does not work
if you do
not shift into neutral and apply the handbrake when stopped. Also, a switch on
turns it off if you do not want it to stop / start.
Reduced Rolling Resistance: really !!! If it was BMWs desire to reduce rolling
resistance, they would not offer such large wheel tyre combos. A wider tyre has
Low Friction Fluids: is there a high friction fluid found in a cars drivetrain
The different models have different variations fitted to the cars. Our (August)
only has one of these functions. That is the "Brake Energy Regeneration",
When I used work for VAG (early nineties), I found that they were just the same
Checked Mercedes out before changing every BMW (on the fifth one now). Not
Have had two Audis, build quality is not as good as the sheep motoring press
I've seen better quality plastics on a Lego brick, and a Citroen, and a Fiat.
I do not get that feeling. When improvements that could be made are suggested,
I meant that I was not surprised. I've never had a problem with a Fiat engine,
but I did
with their gearboxes and electrics, and rust.
In general, someone whom buys a cheaper car does not give it their best care,
machinery needs better care.
You are the one whom said "junk like that".
I think it more that the owner / driver is the deciding factor on how long the
I do not think modern BMWs would be at their best if no oil changes + filter
performed for 80,000 miles, nor many others that were given the punishment that
get from their drivers.
I also do not think a modern Fiat could last 80,000 miles without an oil +
With modern engines, there is far more stress placed upon the oil than used to
Extended oil drains coupled with tighter emission standards, improved fuel
reduced sump quantities mean that the oil is asked a lot more of than used to be
case. Good oil condition is vital to the correct functioning of the engine. When
engine is new, the mating surfaces are the worse they could be causing elevated
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:57:04 +0100, "David Skelton"
I disagree. If a modern diesel has *so* much engine oil in it's
exhaust so as to utterly overwhelm the effect of unburnt/burnt diesel
oil in the exhaust then the engine is a wreck and worthless IMO. Who
cares at that point if it munches the swirl flaps. I've never owned a
diesel that burned *any* measurable amounts of engine oil. Burning
diesel oil produces carbon deposits..often called soot. It can
regularly be seen in your part of the world, apparently.
If a non A/C engine is sufficiently cooled by the airflow through the
radiator, why would the fan ever start?
I think you're logic is reversed now. I'd expect more fan running in
heavy slow moving traffic down south than in faster moving sparse
traffic up north.
Mentioning the fuel wasted by A/C while owning a 335d *is* a tad
How so? That debate centres on the additive differences. Many have
opinions on this but very few seem to actually know.
I don't believe so. It didn't happen in the past so, unless something
like the Nikasil problem is lurking in my engine, I don't expect any
problems now. It's certainly not something I worry about in a diesel.
Do you live in a car museum?
I'm sure I saw that in BMW literature somewhere..that's all I meant.
So how do BMW do it?
That sounds about right..over 10 years ago.
I'm not surprised! That's not a unique BMW failing.
You'll need to explain that one..are more exotic cars poorer built,
unable to cope with the rigours of moving from a to b without tlc?
I have the advantage of knowledge as opposed to guesswork. An
independent assessment of that Fiat was provided by a car thief who
stole it (it was never locked). It was driven 200 yards then the thief
abandoned it and walked in preference and he even left a note of his
opinions of the car!! The car *was* junk. I also think that Fiats from
last century tended to turn to junk as they headed much above 50,000
Your experience of Fiats is not really that relevant any more as the
newer ones are quite different animals to the old rusters of last
century. They may, or may not be, the best but they are markedly
better than the Fiats of the last century.
that is not what I said. I was reponding to the statement you made "in a diesel,
the exhaust will be entirely made up of unburnt diesel not engine oil."
Do you think that when a car starts up and blue smoke comes from the tailpipe,
blue smoke is unburnt fuel ???
No, the soot (or particulate matter) is unburnt fuel. Hopefully, none should get
Unburnt fuel from petrol cars too can be seen coming out from the tail pipe.
The possibility of a restricted cooling system, or stuck in heavy traffic in
ambient temperatures, which I'm sure you must get one or two hot days a year up
We get an average MPG of 39.4, which is better than our 330d, and nearly as good
320d s, and much, much better than the Ford Focus. That is not computer mpg, but
calculated from miles driven divided by gallons used.
The research I have done points to different makes of fuel performing
differently. I will
not *give* away info that I have been paid to ascertain.
You should do.
The direct injection Piezo injectors in your BMW engine are more susceptible to
from poor quality fuel than the injectors of 10 years ago. I have written before
during manufacture, the Piezo injectors are flow tested by the manufacturer to
them to have a "correction factor" that needs to be programmed into the ECU of
receiving car, for that particular cylinder, to accurately inject the precise
required per injection, up to 5 per cylinder per 4 stroke cycle.
Thus, the cleanliness of your diesel injectors is more critical than those in
No, the cost of living is higher, meaning people have less disposable income.
also more OAPs whom cannot afford newer cars.
Do what ?
If you are asking about the battery charging, I've already written about it.
Again, I was agreeing with you.
Would you take a Lambo to a XXX (substitute for your least fav. manufacturer)
servicing / repair. More exotic machinery needs specialist care.
I have owned Fiats, albeit a while ago. What am I guessing ??
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:31:42 +0100, "David Skelton"
It is in effect 'entirely' as the portion of engine oil artifacts is
negligible in this case (swirl flap failure). I'm an engineer not a
Unburnt (in varying degrees) diesel can produce all sorts of colours
of smoke. I've seen white, blue, brown, black...and variations in
I might be very slow on the uptake here but I'm starting to piece
together comments which suggest, to me, that your expertise/experience
is more in petrol engines than diesel ones? Some of your comments
while very true of petrol engines are not quite so true of diesels,
Yawn. 'Burning' diesel in a car produces soot because it doesn't all
actually *burn* - yes, I do know that. If I were to have to (as it
would seem) explain precisely how a 4 stroke deals with it's fuel in
every sentence or use shorter more commonly used simplifying words
like 'burned' then this conversation would be a lot more tedious than
it already is.
Nevertheless, the soot in diesel exhaust *will* be available to build
up on the swirl flaps to a vastly greater degree than any engine oil
Why didn't you get much better mpg from the 320d - it's got much
better figures than the 335d. Was it faulty, poorly driven or badly
LOL..a 5th Gear episode (repeated in the last two weeks on Quest)
showed that..there's no need to be precious.
Forgive me if I don't.
When/if the injectors fail (as they are likely to do in most
installations given time) I'll just replace them. Big deal. Worrying
about stuff like that carries too high a mental cost.
That's not unexpected..the nozzles are getting smaller and delivering
smaller amounts of fuel.
I expect it'll become similar for petrol engines as they move more to
smaller capacity, direct injection and boosted air.
Doh. "Brake Energy Regeneration" - as suggested in the last statement
you made prior to my question.
It is not negligible in a worn engine as some of those were.
Those engines had covered tens of thousands of miles, they were not new engines.
time, the oil vapours had collected on the high turbulence areas whose parts
during the over run.
I am pedantic, I've already said so, but you did not believe me. I doubt you are
engineer from an automotive background.
Blue smoke is engine oil burning, brown / grey / black smoke is unburnt fuel
diesel). White is usually steam, sometimes auto transmission fluid, sometimes
from a blown head gasket, or cracked cylinder head.
That is *not* what you wrote before.
YOU do not need to explain to me. It is you whose knowledge is superficial.
You made it tedious. You think you know more than you do.
Yes and no. It depends on how the car is driven, and the trips involved. There
is no set
answer as there is no set driving pattern.
You see ? Again, no actual knowledge of facts.
None of the above. The Govt. figures are not achievable as they are determined
in a lab,
and this car is driven differently than those before. It only does longer trips.
others did not.
I have not seen the show. What did they say ?
I doubt that you even care if one of the next owners of your car have to find
the cost of
repairing something caused by your ignorance and superiority complex.
So fuel quality and additive technology is more important than before.
Why ?? A town not far from where I live has an OAP population of 33%. What is
about that ?
I have already explained. I wrote that before, too.
Obviously, reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
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