The new 5-Series vs. Pontiac

Hey, when you turn your styling over to the guy that designed the horrible Pontiac Aztec, what do you expect?

The Aztec is just about the ugliest vehicle I have ever seen in the 50 years I have been paying attention to autos. Do you mean Bangle designed it?

Yep. That was his job prior to BMW.

Bullshit. The Aztec was an experiment in "design by committee" gone wrong. Bangle never worked at Pontiac:

Nice try though...

I believe that could be 'cause Pontiac found it easy to copy BMW.. not the other way around.

If you consider the kidney grilles - BMW and Pontiac have both used these for a long long time.

Good for you. I doubt if it bothers BMW in the least - they don't seem to have any problems selling whatever they decide to make. The keep reporting record sales and record profits - when every other car maker is in the toilet.

If they're doing something wrong, they're doing it wrong awfully well.

What's more interesting is how much the Bangle design has moved across other car lines. Mercedes S-Class - Bangle Butt, Hundai - Bangle Butt and Honda - big time Bangle Butt. Everyone is adopting some form of "flame styling"..

Whod'a thunk it?

Yeah, Bangle's not good, but he's not Aztec-level bad. That had to be a GM committee job or at least some guy working alone who had gone off his meds and was taking placebo by mistake.

As you say, the Pontiac split-grill look is VERY old (early 60's at least) and I think you are wrong about that being a BMW-copy. By the way, BMW does not consider that "twin kidney" term to be what they want you to think of. More like nostrils. Heck, what creature runs around with their kidneys way out in front?

Well, actually, they do have trouble selling some cars. The Z3 sold poorly. As did the Coupe. As did the Bangle-ized 7-Series. Mostly, you are right, though. Most of what they make sells very well, but the same can be said (in spades) of Toyotas. If your point is just to make money, that is great success both counts. If the point is also to make memorable and handsome cars, that is a different matter and BMW is largely failing of late. I expect more of BMW. I think other hard-core BMW-heads feel the same. The people who just want a fashion statement with a Roundel on it probably don't, and there are plenty of them to buy anything BMW sells.

- nopcbs

Compared to?

Tom K.

Actually, the E36/7 Z3 and E36/8 Z3 Coupe sold almost 300,000 units during its 7 year production, that far exceeded BMW expectation.

Similarly, the E65/E66 7 Series is the most successful 7 Series ever, accounting for over 160,000 units during the first 3 years and outperformed the E38 7 series' best year by 14%!

Moreover, looking at all the copycat "Bangle-butts" on various Lexus/Toyota, Acura/Honda, Mercedes, etc., and it appears Bangle's "vision" is more popular than ever!!!!

So is "American Idol" ...

-- C.R. Krieger (Not fooled by popularity)

When American composer, Charles Ives, was awarded a $500.00 Pulitzer Prize for his Symphony # 3 some 40 years after it was written, he remarked that "Prizes are the badge of mediocrity."

Tom K.

Perhaps written 40 years earlier, but first performed in 1946, and awarded the Pulitzer for Music the year after, in 1947.

60 years after that a Pulitzer consultant remarked, "Some people are just naturally grouchy."

Alan Brooks Webmaster for The Pulitzer Prizes '69 1600, '74 2002tii, '80 320i, '89 325i, '91 325iX

Seriously - the Z4 hasn't sold *nearly* as well. Of course, that's great for those of us that like them - some great deals to be had! epbrown