Since you failed to produce any useful info let me put you out of your misery. From looking at the spark plugs offered for that application it's clear that the only thing "different" about the $13 plugs compared to $3 plugs is that the $13 plugs are pre-gapped double platinum for longest life. The $3 plugs are just plain old non-plat gap-em-yourself plugs that would work fine, just not for as long and most likely could not be relied upon to make it thru the emissions certification process without a change hence the factory uses the $13 version and whenever possible, sells the $13 version.
Since you failed to produce any useful info let me put you out of your misery. From looking at the spark plugs offered for that application it's clear that the only thing "different" about the $13 plugs compared to $3 plugs is that the $13 plugs are pre-gapped double platinum for longest life. The $3 plugs are just plain old non-plat gap-em-yourself plugs that would work fine, just not for as long and most likely could not be relied upon to make it thru the emissions certification process without a change hence the factory uses the $13 version and whenever possible, sells the $13 version.
On Wed, 06 May 2009 20:11:40 -0500, aarcuda69062 wrote:
No, you're a moron, but in the interest I had in letting the OP know he should verify anything found here, I was trying to be at least somewhat diplomatic. You're just a complete, self absorbed halfwit.
Right and not one of the other plug manufacturers has any clue whatsoever what the heat range is for that plug. It's a bigger secret than who your father is.
That particular plug was used in the following applications: (and is available for less than $6.00 with very little effort involved in finding it)
CADILLAC ESCALADE (1999 - 2000) CHEVROLET ASTRO (1996 - 2005) CHEVROLET BLAZER (1996 - 2005) CHEVROLET BLAZER TRAILBLAZER (1999 - 2001) CHEVROLET C1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1999) CHEVROLET C1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) CHEVROLET C2500 PICKUP (1996 - 2000) CHEVROLET C2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) CHEVROLET C3500 PICKUP (1996 - 2000) CHEVROLET EXPRESS 1500 (1996 - 2009) CHEVROLET EXPRESS 1500 LS 2006 CHEVROLET EXPRESS 1500 LT 2006 CHEVROLET EXPRESS 2500 (1996 - 2005) CHEVROLET EXPRESS 3500 (1996 - 2002) CHEVROLET K1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1999) CHEVROLET K1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) CHEVROLET K2500 PICKUP (1996 - 2000) CHEVROLET K2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) CHEVROLET K3500 PICKUP (1996 - 2000) CHEVROLET LUMINA EURO (1992 - 1994) CHEVROLET LUMINA LS (1995 - 1996) CHEVROLET LUMINA LTZ 1997 CHEVROLET LUMINA Z34 (1991 - 1994) CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO Z34 (1995 - 1997) CHEVROLET P30 VAN (1996 - 1999) CHEVROLET S10 PICKUP (1996 - 2004) CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 (1999 - 2005) CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 CLASSIC LS 2007 CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 CLASSIC WT 2007 CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 LS 2006 CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 WT (2006 - 2009) CHEVROLET TAHOE (1996 - 2000) GMC C1500 PICKUP (1998 - 1999) GMC C1500 PICKUP SIERRA (1996 - 1997) GMC C1500 PICKUP SIERRA XC (1996 - 1997) GMC C1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) GMC C2500 PICKUP (1999 - 2000) GMC C2500 PICKUP SIERRA (1996 - 1998) GMC C2500 PICKUP SIERRA XC (1996 - 1998) GMC C2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) GMC C3500 PICKUP (1998 - 2000) GMC C3500 PICKUP SIERRA (1996 - 1997) GMC C3500 PICKUP SIERRA XC (1996 - 1997) GMC JIMMY (1996 - 2005) GMC JIMMY ENVOY (1998 - 2001) GMC JIMMY SLS 2002 GMC K1500 PICKUP 1999 GMC K1500 PICKUP SIERRA (1996 - 1998) GMC K1500 PICKUP SIERRA XC (1996 - 1998) GMC K1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) GMC K2500 PICKUP (1998 - 2000) GMC K2500 PICKUP SIERRA (1996 - 1997) GMC K2500 PICKUP SIERRA XC (1996 - 1997) GMC K2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1999) GMC K3500 PICKUP (1998 - 2000) GMC K3500 PICKUP SIERRA (1996 - 1997) GMC K3500 PICKUP SIERRA XC (1996 - 1997) GMC P3500 VAN (1996 - 1999) GMC SAFARI (1998 - 2005) GMC SAFARI XT (1996 - 1997) GMC SAVANA 1500 (1996 - 2009) GMC SAVANA 1500 LS 2006 GMC SAVANA 1500 LT 2006 GMC SAVANA 2500 (1996 - 2005) GMC SAVANA 3500 (1996 - 2002) GMC SIERRA 1500 (1999 - 2005) GMC SIERRA 1500 CLASSIC SL 2007 GMC SIERRA 1500 CLASSIC WT 2007 GMC SIERRA 1500 SL 2006 GMC SIERRA 1500 WT (2006 - 2009) GMC SONOMA (1996 - 2004) GMC YUKON (1996 - 1999) GMC YUKON DENALI (1999 - 2000) GMC YUKON SLE 1999 GMC YUKON SLT 1999 OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA (1996 - 2001) OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME (1991 - 1995) OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME INTERNATIONAL (1991 - 1993) OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME S (1992 - 1994) OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME SL (1991 - 1996) PONTIAC GRAND PRIX (1992 - 1993) PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GT (1991 - 1996) PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GTP (1995 - 1996) PONTIAC GRAND PRIX LE (1992 - 1993) PONTIAC GRAND PRIX SE (1991 - 1994) PONTIAC GRAND PRIX STE (1991 - 1993)
Who the f*ck are you?
Actually, no it doesn't. But rather than wasting pixels pointing out the obvious to you, or assuming for a millisecond that anyone is reading this or actually gives a shit, I'll just let you wallow in whatever it is you're wallowing in.
Becuase I won't buy $15 spark plugs from your bumfuck parts shop? Nice try.
Damn this shit is dumb. You can buy the $12 plugs from Advance for $6.59 each. You can buy the Autolite Double Platinum equivalent for $3.99 and they are every bit as good as the AC plugs. The shop charges $12 for them so they' be there next week. No garage can survive on competitive labor charges only.
That last paragraph of yours pretty much just parrots the last three things in my previous list, you know, the one that you claimed 'failed to produce any useful info." IOWs; it's not true unless you say it's true even though you heard it from me first.
My-my... what a self absorbed insecure little prick you are.
Here's a news flash genius; you are not free to modify or alter any emissions component or its performance standard whenever you wish to save a dollar. IOWs, you can not substitute -any- emissions related component on that vehicle unless it has been demonstrated to fit -and perform- in an identical manner as the one certified at the time of manufacture.
Consider the simple fact that those $13 spark plugs over a 199K mile life of the vehicle would cost $188.00 (installed) where the $2 spark plugs over that same 199K mile life would cost $854.00 (installed) using an average of $85 an hour for labor ($85X1.3) and the vehicle needing one spark plug change at 100K miles with the double platinum plugs versus 7 changes at 25K mile intervals for the cheapcrap-sorta-kindof-fits wrong spark plug that lil' Abner and yourself advocate using.
I suspect that it would be asking far too much for a non professional such as yourself to understand why a real professional makes the recommendations and takes the actions that they do.
I now know that expecting you to be able to solve a simple 3rd grade math exercise is asking too much also.
Got it. You're a service writer at some GM dealership that's lost about 90% of their business recently and doing everything you can to hold on to your completely non-essential job by making shit up in the name of justifying your existance.
$85/hour? 1.3 hours? 25K for plugs? Complete BS on all accounts. Anyone that can't change their own plugs in 30 minutes or so in the driveway likely isn't reading this in the first place. I've never gotten less than 100K out of a set of any plugs and typically just change them out of guilt anyway. Redo your swindling charges.
Not true. As with a cat converter, the MANUFACTURER must be able to demonstrate a certain life for all the emission system parts OR they must replace them free if they won't last the full certification period. It would be the same with spark plugs, the MANUFACTURER would much rather spend $10 more for the 6 plugs and not have to do a free replacement at 60K miles. But the owner is free to use plugs that perform are required even if they require replacement sooner.
The cost difference would not be that great, most likely it would be about the same overall. The cheap plugs would last about 50K miles. But it's beside the point. The fact is, you were asked several times to explain the DIFFERENCE between the $13 plugs and the $2 plugs and you were completely unable to do so. My self and another poster had to tell you what the technical differences were. If you are a professional it must be a professional clown, you sure as hell aren't a professional mechanic.
Fairly typical labor rate anywhere outside of Dogpatch.
I don't recall the OP stating anything about doing it himself, so you're just spouting ego driven bullshit on many accounts. The fact that -you-can change the spark plugs in your 4 cylinder crapmobile in 30 minutes has absolutely NOTHING to do with what the job would be billed out at retail.
The "driveway" comment explains a lot though...
Right. You routinely get 100K miles on a set of $2 copper spark plugs. You really -do- have that 'macho' thing working, don't cha...
By the way, your claims are totally irrelevant.
Perfect. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Really? let's take a look.
$85.00 X 1.3 = $110.00 Labor $2.00 X 6 = $12.00 Parts Total minus sales tax $122.00
If you figure roughly 5% sales tax, add another $42, your recommendation brings the OPs total cost to almost $900, IOWs, you've wasted over $700 of his money not to mention his time and inconvenience.
It's a lucky thing for you that the OP didn't ask his question in regard to a vehicle with compression sense ignition, you'd have been forced to show what a true dumb f*ck you are.
First of all, not true. That is why AC Delco (you know, the original designer and manufacturer) doesn't even list a non platinum spark plug for that application in their catalog. Second, it wasn't the vehicle owner who was going to install the spark plugs, it was a retail repair shop, so anything you may mistakenly claim that a vehicle owner might-maybe-can do is totally irrelevant and out of context.
See my reply to lil' Abner
You have no way of knowing that and you have no experience to back that up.
My bad... since GM has been installing platinum spark plugs as OE for well over 17 years, I really hadn't considered that you two are that much in the dark ages. Being an arm chair, 'round the water cooler discussin' car guy as you fancy yourself to be, I just assumed (I know) that you had at the very least a minimal basic understanding of what the most routine and mundane miniscule state of not so current events are.
In shorter terms, yes, water is wet.
Well, you told me something but it wasn't -that-.
The reality is; you asked me what the difference was between your shitbox 89 and "THAT" 2001 MY 4.3. I explained it. You disagreed. Then you reposted essentially the same things that I had posted in reply to your request of the differences. You're a sad little puppet.
Because in your mind, repairing automobiles is accomplished by pouring cooling system sealer into radiators and STP into automatic transmissions. You do all of the back yard hacks proud.
If I can ask you one thing...
Is it a fascination with the actress, or does it have something to do with where Bruce Willis parked his penis?
Yawn. Closer than you'd admit. Your paycheck, when you had one, had a GM logo somewhere on it. I'll bet a month of your union dues.
So you've got one 30 year old joke. Impressive.
It has huge amounts to do with the original poster's question. NOTHING to do with what you tried to rape people for when you were employed. My "crapmobile" has your company's logo on it. My other V-8 has the logo on it that belongs to the company that isn't taking billions prior to filing bankruptcy and handing the reigns over to your union.
It explains that I work on my own vehicles? Your intuition is spellbinding.
Whatever you say.
Hardly. Just pokes holes in yours though.
Not surprising. You don't say anything well yourself.
No one in their right mind would pay someone $110.00 in labor to change plugs. This is the reason you're unemployed, remember? Now do the math again.
No one would change perfectly good plugs at 25K either. Another reason your dealership is failing. You swindle people. They found out.
Let's do it at 50K for example: $12 parts times 4 = $48.00. Your way wastes whatever your place charges less $48.00.
Kind of like you've been doing so far? Nah. Just looked up parts for his truck like any normal individual would. It sucks for you that your swindling days are dwindling. Good for everyone else though.
So, you think that dealership employees get their paycheck direct from GM? man, you have this all figured out.
So, you're so confident in yourself that you're willing to bet nothing. That's brave.
No joke, it's a fairly typical labor rate paid by people who would rather have their vehicles fixed correctly by properly trained personnel who use the correct parts. Not everyone feels so insecure about their manhood that they feel compelled to demonstrate it by fixing their car in their driveway. others have better more profitable things to do with their time. others instinctively know that they just plain don't have the skills or equipment to do it themselves.
Actually, it doesn't. He made no mention of asking how to do it himself, nor did he indicate any desire to do it himself. he simply asked why the professional he was hiring to do the work was charging $12.00 for the spark plugs. Looks like the school system in Dogpatch needss to bump the reading comprehension curriculum up a notch or eight.
heh-heh... the last employment I had before opening my own business was for a state IM-240 program where I supervised and performed emissions diagnostics *free of charge* to anyone so desiring such services. I would routinely meet with officials and technicians from other state emissions programs, diagnostic equipment manufacturers, officials from the EPA, training program managers from OEMs, equipment manufacturers, vocational school programs. I developed curriculum which I taught in
-my- classroom which was housed in the $1,000,000 facility built specifically for the purpose of performing the previously mentioned FREE diagnostics and industry/technician outreach. I sat on and chaired steering committees that you couldn't even imagine to exist. During that employment, I diagnosed thousands of vehicles with a 100% success rate which saved people thousands of dollars. "Rape?" You couldn't be more wrong.
Impossible. I don't have a logo, and your foolish buying choices are not my fault.
In one year or less, they will be.
It explains that you're an amateur.
It is what it is. If you think life is unfair, my suggestion would be to slash lengthwise.
Fine. Just post one single OEM maintenance schedule for a vehicle that uses non platinum spark plugs with a recommended replacement interval of
100K miles. Should be no problem since you obviously are capable of copying and pasting. Oh yeah, that copy and paste you did... it showed all of the applications that use the same double platinum spark plug as the OPs Blazer. (thanks for proving my point) Now do it the other way, copy and paste the applications from the AC Delco catalog that your $2.00 spark plug will fit. Let's see if it includes a 2001 Blazer. Or, I'll save you the bother... it isn't there.
And the point of insulting yourself is?
Happens thousands of times at least 5 days a week.
Projecting?
Why, there are no mistakes.
How do you know they are perfectly good? Which ignition scope do you own, which scan tool do you own? Exactly HOW do you monitor misfires on a 2001 Chevy Blazer in your driveway there lil' Abner?
But I don't own a dealership and I don't work at a dealership. Maybe you should stop reacting to your paranoid delusions when you post.
HUH? Are you under some inane notion that auto repair should be free? That'sabout the most immature thing I've seen since the Casshole came to usenet. Otherwise, last time I checked $854.00 divided by 2 was still more than $188.00 Thanks again for demonstrating that you flunked third grade math.
I'd probably answer that way also if I had no clue what the author was talking about.
Too bad that you couldn't tell the chicken salad from chicken shit.
I'm busier than I've ever been. People certainly aren't trading in for new, they're repairing what they have. Gonna be a busy summer. two weeks in a row now I've had to blow off taking the AAR to cruise night because of the work load. Ah well, at least the work is easy, plug in the scan tool, down load a re-flash, collect big bucks, don't even get a little bit dirty. Makes me real glad I stayed current with the technology, unlike a couple of backyard Bubbas here.
Anyone who claims a 100% success rate over thousands of vehicles/patients/whatever is a liar unless they were doing something so incredibly trivial as to be meaningless.
'fraid it is true. Doesn't matter what AC delco "lists". There are other plugs that will work fine in that application. And it doesn't matter who is installing them.
Why, so I can read more nonsense?
And you have no way of knowing the would only last 25K. It's just estimates.
Yup, because of the emissions laws for the reasons I've already explained. Which has nothing to do with what plugs WILL work as replacement plugs.
Did you just learn that yesterday?
No, you didn't explain it. Unless you think saying they are painted different colors explains why they need different plugs. The fact is, they DON"T NEED to use $13 plugs as service replacements.
GM puts cooling system sealer in at the factory, are you saying GM is an automotive hack? And the fact is that oil viscosity is one factor in the choice of hydraulic fluids and if a different viscosity makes a transmission that would otherwise need an overhaul able to continue in service for 2 more years, going on three, what's wrong with that?
You're the one who has that interest... why ask me about your fantasies.
Did you carry a union card before you got laid off from the dealership?
The joke referred to the ongoing Dogpatch thing, that nobody much younger than you would get. Try and keep up. I read recently that there may be a cure for Alzheimers on the horizon. You might want to find someone to read it to you.
How in the f*ck do you leap to that conclusion? Anyone that does any work on their own vehicles is insecure in their manhood? Are you truly that clueless?
For the record, I don't have a problem taking something to a dealership that requires their diagnostic equipment when it would be cheaper than swapping out electrical parts to find a problem - BCM, EBCM, etc. Anyone with even a hint of mechanical skills can handle most repairs themselves if they enjoy doing it or just don't feel like paying some high school dropout that's taken a few seminars $85/hour. I don't have the desire to own a ScanTool. Just too impractical. Don't think I need one to change brakes or fuel injectors though, do I?
Now you're feeling like you're in control of how others spend their time? Perfect.
What a blowhole.
You drew no paycheck for being 100% right? Sure thing.
Which GM dealership fired you?
Maybe .
And?
Nope. I usually pay around $1.79 for them. 265,000 miles on the Ford. Plugs changed twice. You seem a bit obsessive about the manhood/macho thing .
Your ability to leap to untold conclusions is truly amazing.
Sure. You post one OEM maintenance schedule that shows fluids used with anything other than their own brand name on it. Jump to your own conclusion on that one too, scooter.
Here's some more then:
In the early 1990s, an all-numeric, identification code was developed to ensure that the proper spark plug would be selected for replacement in specific engine applications. The numeric code does not in any way correspond to the heat range of the spark plug. Therefore, selection of a spark plug with a different code number is not recommended. The heat ranges may be drastically different between two different plugs, and engine damage or poor performance may result. See your local installer or retailer for details. The prefix ?41? stands for the manufacturer?s product line (e.g.,
41 = spark plug) Numbers after the prefix indicate the type of spark plug and also the specific application:
Sounds like they pay their marketing department plenty of union OT.
What's that prove?
You did until you got laid off.
Not a bit. Except your "free" diagnostics.
You're truly clueless. Kind of funny in a pitiful sort of way.
See the part above about raping and swindling.
Quick question: other than vehicles, do you have every item you own repaired at full dealership rate when it shows any signs of a problem? Do you call a plumber when you've got a leaky faucet? Do you pay $120/hour to have your hard drive defragged? I'm sure you hire a cabinet maker when you've got a squeaky hinge in the kitchen, right?
What you say is irrelevant since you're just taking pot shots.
I was a union member from 1972 to 1978 when I was a machinist for Mercury Marine, and from 1990 to 1992 when I was afleet mechanic for a natural gas utility. Since neither job had anything to do with direct retail sales or repair to the public, another swing and a miss for lil' Abner.
Never been laid off from a job. He swings, he misses again.
Yes, the ongoing Dogpatch thing. It's where hillbillies live.
Well, since it's obvious that you'd need a double dose of that cure, I'll leave it available for you.
Fairly easy given your replies.
Not "anyone" just the numbskulls who insist they know it all.
No, but you certainly are.
Well then, you're certainly not qualified to disagree with me then.
That would be the dropout that you claim to not have a problem visiting at the dealership because you lack the skills and equipment to effect a repair?
$2.00 spark plug people rarely do.
Actually, there are many instances where you would. How would you determine that you actually needed replacement injectors without analyzing scan tool data? (assuming that you actually -could- analyze the data)
How are you going to properly bleed the brakes if it is mandatory to use a scan tool to complete that task?
How about a simple transmission fluid and filter change? Many instances where you need a capable scan tool to perform the quick relearn procedure before you operate the vehicle lest you fry the clutches.
Power window switch, instrument cluster repair, they need to be at the minimum set up with a scan tool and in many cases, programmed before they'll operate.
Talk about leaping to conclusions... Numb nuts, I -give- them control of their time.
You're the blow hole, you think that changing the parameters and the premise from the OP somehow validates your answers.
You think that -your- mediocre do it yourself results are acceptable in the market place. You're a burn out who has compartmentalized everything within the pathetic confines of your limited skill set.
How did you manage to jump to THAT conclusion? I was well paid for what I did, that you can be assured of. It didn't cost any vehicle owner one red cent, the budget for my operations was included in the fees collected from the state for the emissions testing as part of the vehicle registration fee, the fees are charged regardless of whether or not the vehicle ever needed to visit my facility. And yes, a large part of my job was dealing with IDtenTs like you, i.e., yes Mr. Know it all, you can watch me swap those wrong spark plugs from your VIN Y Oldsmobile motor, install the correct AC Delco spark plugs, observe me re-performing the IM-240 test and watch the vehicle pass right there from the big window that separates the class room from the diagnostic bay.
Never been fired from anywhere except the first gas station I worked at, but the owners daughter has nothing to do with anything in this thread.
Yes, maybe.
It would be like Granny Clampett disagreeing with James Stiehl on how to treat a broken leg.
Well, it looks like you won't be saving Ford any time soon...
Almost as amazing as yours.
Chrysler ATF+4 (you DO know that Chrysler owns the rights to ATF+X don't you?)
So, instead of showing any proof that supports you claims, you haul out something over 20 years old that really only reinforces exactly what I said in an earlier post.
How many black helicopters were circling over your head when you posted that paranoid crap?
That you are delusional.
Never been laid off. Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerike Threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Yet you protest $100.00 labor charges to replace spark plugs.
We didn't repair anything. That would have created a conflict of interest which was strictly forbidden by the state by contract.
oh, you never even made it to the third grade... my mistake.
I'm sure there are some remedial courses that you could take.
Expected response from someone who hasn't a clue about current technology.
Yes. Even though Cost Cutters offers a discount on haircuts on Tuesdays, it really doesn't matter to me if I go in on a Thursday because the pittling little price difference isn't anywhere near worth it to me to disrupt my schedule.
Haven't had any faucet leaks in 26 years here.
There is no need to defrag a Mac hard drive.
No, I could afford good cabinets that don't fall apart.
Although I'm perfectly capable and know how to re-roof a house, I chose to have it done by a well established roofing company last August because they could get it done faster than I could, they had the necessary equipment to haul off the debris every night when they finished, and I got a iron clad warranty that I wouldn't have gotten had I done it myself. I lost no time from my business, I gave up no leisure time, the gutters were done for the cost of materials only and the difference between what they charged minus what I could have bought the shingles, edging, ridge vents, flashing, dumpster and OSB for was less than I made during the period it would have taken me to do the job. They also took down a block chimney in the corner of the garage which I had wanted removed from the time I bought this house. And, they offered free financing for a year though I didn't use it. I paid more than a DIYer but I now have a beautiful new roof with a warranty, confidence in the job performed and my homeowners insurance went down substantially enough that the savings will over the life of the roof, pay back more than I spent to have them do it versus doing it myself
It is possible to make intelligent choices prior to making a purchase, choices that pre-empt early failure, which is exactly what this is all about. Too bad you don't get it.
You may have mastered 'price.' Now go read up on 'value' and see if you can figure out the difference.
Scan tool prevents 99% of parts swapping. You use the tool and a diagnostic tree to find the faulty part.
Anyone with even a hint of mechanical skills can
YOU may think that way but there are a LOT of folks who won't even check the oil or antifreeze. See them every day. Has nothing to do with ability, they just don't want to DIY.
I don't have the desire to own a ScanTool.
Depends on the vehicle. On some you need to cycle the ABS using a scan tool to bleed the brakes. Changing fuel injectors without using a scan tool to cycle them and determine which one is faulty or dirty is a waste of money.
He said that others have more profitable ways to spend their time. IE: a doctor who loves working on cars is NOT going to bother working on one when he can make more money working in the office than he can save by DIY.
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