1995 T&C van - brakes revisited

One more thing - the details said it was NOT ABS - - that's why I think master cyl...

I am trying to keep the purchase price within the "stimulus package" price range.

TIA

PoD

The part you are describing is the booster. The accumulator is part of the ABS system. I would run away from this vehicle as fast as you could... The brake fix WILL cost more than what you plan to pay for the van.

Steve B.

Thanks Steve - I was trying to figure out how it could be the accumulator and -NOT- be ABS. It didn't add up. I am glad my BS alarm went off and I dropped in here. I have been reading newsgroups (and participating) for years. I think they are one of the best things on the internet!

PoD

You are being mislead. The 95 Caravan has the best ABS system that the car has ever had!! The infamous Bendix 10 system was not on that vehicle or the

94 van.The Bendix 10 was the system that was recalled. If you like this 95 and it is in good shape I would buy it. It was the best year for the Mini Van

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Is there a likely culprit with the system on a '95 that would cause the weak braking and ABS light on?

I infer that the OP is looking for something around $600 since he mentioned the stimulus check. Checking my local Craig's List there are 5 of these vans out there for less than 1K in operable condition. I know any vehicle in that price range is going to be a pig in a poke but personally I would rather start with one that is working and pray from there.

Steve B.

This is a complete crapload of BS.

The 93-95 T&C use the Bendix 4 ABS system which does not have a separate accumulator. The accumulator is part of the modulator assembly.

Paul, yes, if you take this to the dealer it will cost. But IF this is indeed a 95 - and check the VIN - the part that is probably failing is the modulator, which is under the battery, and has a bunch of brake lines going to it.

If you have a wrecker or u-pull it or pick-a-part in your area, then just get another modulator and swap it in. The only thing you would have to have the dealer do is bleed the brake system, because to properly bleed that ABS system requires a Chrysler DRB scantool which only a dealer has.

Here are the parts in that ABS system that are specific to the ABS:

modulator assembly unique proportioning valves unique junction block wheel speed sensors tone wheels electronic control unit

All the critical stuff is in the modulator assembly. And normally these in the bendix 4 system are pretty bulletproof.

Chrysler got savaged over the Bendix 10 ABS system used in prior year vans, and has a lifetime warranty on parts of it as a result. Obviously for the 93-95 year they went to Bendix and told them to make a bulletproof system and spare no expense, which they did.

In any case, the ABS system normally never is in operation. If the van has weak brakes, it is as you thought, somewhere else in the system. If there's no fluid leaks, and the brake fluid is contaminated with water, the master cylinder would be a good place to start.

I have 2 of these vans. The ONLY time I've ever had the ABS system trigger at all was when I was testing to see if it worked during the winter when we had a really cold bit, and ice on the road.

Ted

If you have a weak braking system forget about the ABS system. Check the base braking system. ABS is a separate function

So tell me great one what part of my text is a "complete crapload of bs".

The part he was describing is the booster. Fact.

The accumulator is part of the ABS system. You seem to agree as you said the same thing is your text.

The brake fix will cost more that what he plans to pay for the vehicle. Fact He's looking at a $600max van. By the time he tows the vehicle home for repair then to the dealer after repair, gets a part out of a junkyard and replaces it (and that one part won't be the only thing he needs) and then pays a dealer to bleed the brakes he will have spent as much or more than he spent for the van. For $1000 he could have just gotten one of these vans that didn't need any work (yet).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is a complete crapload of BS.

You folks have given me some more food for thought. I think the thing I was having trouble with was the thought that ABS would affect the regular braking system. I think we've cleared that part up. Heck, it could be a stupid broken vacuum line! I am going to give it a closer look. The current owner doesn't seem to be in any hurry to sell.

I am also thinking of stuffing a wad of cash in my pocket and visiting a few of the local used car lots. I don't mind cleaning something up as long as it runs and drives ok. I might get lucky and find one that was traded in with the kids popcorn, soda, and gum still in it for dirt cheap.

I have a little time before I really need it - - thanks again for all the good info.

Paul (PoD)

The accumulator in this system is not separately replaceable.

Either the van is actually a 92 or something or the service tech had his head up his ass.

Not fact. It depends on what is broken. If it has weak braking it isn't the ABS system as I already said. It is likely a fluid leak that is letting air in the system, or a master cylinder that is leaking internally or some such. It isn't the ABS.

You cannot cut into the hydraulic system on these vans without bleeding them, which MUST be done at a dealer (or someone with a Chrysler scanner) Trust me, I have 2 of these vans both with ABS and I have an aftermarket scantool (OTC) that does everything BUT trigger the ABS selonoids to allow you to bleed it, and talk to the ABS computer. I've taled to OTC themselves about this - Chrysler did NOT release info on talking to the ABS computer. No scanner other than the Chrysler one can talk to this system.

If he has the ABS light on and a chrysler scantool said the accumulator is bad that means the accumulator pistons INSIDE the modulator are bad, which means you replace the modulator. You cannot rebuild the modulator in a home garage. HOWEVER the ABS light will go on for other problems that have nothing to do with the modulator, it is stupid to sit there guessing.

A shadetree mechanic can fix this problem without spending a mint. All he needs to do is normal brake system troubleshooting, fix any fluid leaks or bad master cylinder, and when that is done then take it to a dealer and have them bleed the system and scan the ABS computer. If the computer says a wheel sensor is bad (a VERY common occurance) you buy the part and replace it. If it says the modulator is shot, then hell with it - unless you live in a climate that requires ABS. He needs braking, he does not need ABS. A shot modulator will not interfere with braking if all the other parts are good.

Hello, heard of AAA before? Free towing? Eh?

If the only thing that is bad is the ABS and a spongy brake due to air in the hydralic system, he can drive it to the dealer, he likely does not need to tow it. Unless he lives 100 miles away from a dealer on the other end of a freeway. He implied the current owner is driving it.

This isn't how you buy a used car.

You look at everything. Maybe this van is pristine with a transmission that was rebuilt a year ago and the owner is just tired of it.

So what if other vans of this vintage are selling for $1K. You don't know what their condition is. Maybe they are all right mechanically but have the crap dented out of them, and the OP doesen't want to drive around looking like a bum.

Not everyone lives in an area like I happen to live in where they don't salt the crap out of the roads and vehicles last 30 years still looking like they rolled off the assembly line (sans poor paint)

The OP has to take what is available in his area. I presumed he already looked around. Did you?

Ted

Whenever I have sold a car in the past I've gone to great lenghts to make it appear I'm in no hurry to sell.

Start pulling out the 100's and make him an offer. Thats the only way to really know if he's ready to sell.

Generally the people that need these vans are the young families and the fact of the matter is that there's very little else available that they can use. 20 years ago there were still enough used station wagons on the market, but not anymore.

And, if you do have a young family, once you have driven your family around in one of these you will never give it up. They are just too damn well suited for this task. And the T&C in particular has amenities that I wouldn't give up easily.

Just make sure the A/C works. If it doesen't, these vans turn into rolling greenhouses in the summer.

Ted

Thanks Ted - You and Glenn have provided the mechanical insight I need to make the decision. I appreciate every answer here. Thanks again, everybody.

PoD

I would suggest the local paper and Craigs List if you want to take your "wad o' cash" and go looking. An original owner is less likely to lie to you about the condition of a vehicle because they don't want you knocking on their door the next day. If I would be ashamed to sell a car to you then I would take it to a dealer and trade it in. Note that isn't a rule.. Some people have no problems lying to your face.

Steve B.

I'll agree the original diagnosis may be (or even probably is) wrong. I still would run from the vehicle and I still think he will spend as much fixing it as he does buying it... I hope that he buys it and comes back next month to tell me I was wrong.

Steve B.

Steve - The car I was looking at is being sold by the original owner - - but - - your advise and others have given me some serious rething time. I think I will look around a LOT more before I buy something.

Thanks to everyone here - - this kind of discussion is why I like usenet. I hear everything!!

PoD