300M still clunks

So I've been trying to get the clunks out of my 300M for months now so I can give the car to my in-laws. First under the extended warranty. Now its on my nickel. Front struts were replaced. So was steering rack and some other odd pieces. At that point clunks became unpredictably intermittent and no amount of jostling the car or moving things underneath could duplicate them. On my nickel the bottom half of the steering column was replaced and the front struts were replaced again along with the bearing plates they sit on. Now the clunk is even rarer but still happens. The annoying thing about it is each time I remind the dealer not to overtighten the screws for the wiper trim but they always ruin the plastic blocks they screw into. Also each time the steering wheel is crooked when I pick up the car. I just left them the car to fix those 2 issues again. I will be giving up on the clunk and with the purchase of 2 Honda's, that will be it for Chrysler for a while.

Reply to
Art
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Sorry to hear that they still can't fix it right. Is there another Chrysler dealer in the area? Perhaps they might be able to assist.

What kind of Honda are you looking at?

I'm still debating on the 300 C :-(

Ken

Reply to
NJ Vike

We bought a Honda minvan so I could carry my 90 year old father's power chair in the back on occassion. I looked at the Chrysler, Ford, and Toyota but the Honda won out. We rented a Chrysler minivan in Florida for a week and it was ok but the honda handling and ride is much better. We never liked our Toyota Avalon with all of the rattles so we were biased against buying another Toyota. The Ford has a very poor reliability record according to Consumer Reports.

My wife wanted a hybrid without sacrifice so she bought an Accord hybrid after trying a Prius and the new Civic hybrid. Her second choice would have been a Civic hybrid. The Prius is a pain to start. I guess they wanted it to be different. They succeeded. What's wrong with turning a key? The Accord hybrid doesn't get you tremendous gas mileage but it feels like a V8.

I am thinking about taking the 300M to a family owned front end shop or a collision shop. Maybe another dealer but I doubt it. Mine is the best I've found in the area for Chrysler.

The only thing lousy about the Accord Hybrid is they left out all the electronic gadgets Chrysler spoils you with like auto locking doors, auto headlights, memory seats. A trunk net and automatic real view mirror are dealer installed options if you can believe that. The navigation seems cool but I'll have to read the directions to figure it out.

Reply to
Art

Good luck with the new vehicle.

I had looked at the new Avalon and it has much to offer. It's great on gas and fast. Plenty of space for people like me who are over 6 feet. Oh, and it uses regular gas.

Still undecided here :-(

Ken

Reply to
NJ Vike

Also the new Camry comes out in a few months. 6 months early. Another turn of the screw for Ford and GM. I believe it is based on the new Avalon platform or visa versa. The hybrid will probably be cheaper than the Avalon. Of course if you want speed, it is not the car to wait for. The hybrid will be a 4 cylinder.

Reply to
Art

If Art had been Smart, he would have bought a new Camry when it came out. Then nobody would be kicking his ass out of the Toyota group!

What kind of a guy gives his in-laws a CLUNKER, ART?!?!?!?!

Reply to
Vash The Stampede

Reply to
philthy

Don't worry - it will come back as the asians keep supporting the US govt's federal debt by buying it up.

Bush and Congress don't raise taxes so that Joe Q American has more disposable income to buy more stuff from Asia (cars, Walmart stuff, etc), and the Asians in turn take that money and buy US debt. US interest rates go up (which makes that debt more expensive over time) and soon China will be directing US foreign policy. Makes sense to me.

Reply to
MoPar Man

Not yet.

The 300C is still the top contender as while I was having my M serviced, I sat in both the Daytona (Top Banana) and the 300C. Each vehicle offers so much room.

I also like the Yukon Denali, yea, I know it's different but both the Daytona and Denali won't be around next year. Well, the Denali will but it will be a new model.

Ken

Reply to
NJ Vike

The Accord hybrid has to be the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen. All the expense and maintenance of a hybrid, without any mileage advantage worth writing home about. Hell, it'll never even pay for itself. Its the car for people who want to *say* they have a hybrid but don't care a whit about whether it actually does any good.

Of all the hybrids on the market, Toyota's design (and the licensed version in the Ford Escape) is the only one that really makes sense, because its the only one that breaks the direct connection between the IC engine and the wheels allowing the IC engine to be highly optimized to operate at a fixed speed (two different speeds, actually) to gain as much efficiency out of the engine itself as possible. The Honda designs are just about useless because the IC engine still has to produce power everywhere from idle to redline, and that is the biggest single requirement that forces a whole slew of compromises in the engine's design and tuning.

Reply to
Steve

No doubt about it the Toyota Hybrid design makes a lot more sense. Notwithstanding, their hybrid SUV is similar to the Honda design and gets a mediocre mileage improvement like the Accord. The new Civic hybrid gets darn good mileage and would have been her second choice but she wanted leather and power seats. Plus being used to a large car like the 300M, a step down to the Accord size is about all she could take. The Accord hybrid easily gets 25 mpg in her stop and go crawl to work. Mostly because the engine turns off when the car is warmed up, in drive, and your foot is on the brake pedal. The Accord conventional V6 and her 99 300M couldn't get close to that. Will it every pay off? Hopefully not. Gas would probably have to hit $5 per gallon. But people spend thousand of bucks on features in cars everyday. In her case it was the hybrid feature. She could have crossed the street and bought a more luxurious Lexus or Acura for more money and not get the feature she wanted. That is free enterprise.

Reply to
Art

Back to the clunk. I brought it to a Dodge dealer. They currently believe that the steering rack installed in October is bad. They claim that in the morning before it warms up they will be able to put a hand on it and feel the clunk there if the rack is the problem.

Reply to
Art

I know this is obvious, but have the sway bar bushings been replaced?

If the answer is yes, please ignore the rambling that follows.

Is the clunk noticible at low speeds when backing out of the driveway and turining onto your street? Or when you're running down an otherwise smooth stretch of pavement that has a slight left-right-left roll? Or if it's been doing it for a while, anytime you hit a bump?

The bushings (almost any mileage) and end links (only on vehicles over 100k miles) are regular sources of clunking, bushings being the culprit in every ChryCo I've had within the last 10 years. In fact, I just replaced the fronts on my wife's '03 T&C at 55k miles and am about to do my '98 GC fronts again, last time was just 30k miles ago.

These rubber pieces go for under $10 each and take less than an hour to install with just a few handtools. The T&C's I bought last week at a Dodge dealer for $11.47 out the door for the pair. I do recall the Jeep parts at O'Reilly's were a few dollars more but I think they were urethane, and I won't do that again.

If it's end links, they are about $70 per side and they, too, can be replaced with simple handtools. The only unique too you might need would be a joint seperator to pop the ends loose.

The reason I'd suggest this is because it has also been my experience that the dealerships have difficulty accepting that such a cheap repalcement part could be the source of a heavy metal clunk. I first encountered this on my wife's previous van, a '96 T&C, and again with my '99 300M.

I took the '96 to the dealer for diagnosis at around 45k miles and when faced with their over $500 rack replacement theory, I bought a pair of bushings (special order in those days) and installed them in under 30 minutes.

When the rear end began to do the same thing about a year later, I threw in a pair of rear bushings and that clunk, too, went away never to return. My daughter still drives that van at nearly 140k miles, there still is no front or rear-end clunk.

My 300M developed a similar clunk around 45k miles. During a trip to the dealer for replacement of my transmission controller, I had them check the clunk in the front end. Their diagnosis was end links, $270 installed, and possibly the steering rack, upwards to $800. I special ordered the bushings and never looked back. Thirty minutes under the car and the clunk was gone.

I can't imagine the frustration I'd have gone hrough had I listened to either dealer's recommendation. Of course they didn't care; they were going to do what the service checklist suggested and take no responsibility for considering that the procedure might make an assumption that the bushings were either not typically (shame shame) the culprit or diagnosis would be so obvious that customers wouldn't get stiffed.

Again, please excuse the rambing if this wasn't what you were looking for. At least I'm not talking about the relative merits of another make in reponse to your genuine request fo help.

Bob

Reply to
RCSnyder

If it were those bushings, would it explain a clunk that happens only once or twice in a 20 mile drive despite numerous stop and goes and turns, and with no regularity whatsoever?

Reply to
Art

You can find the OEM TRW brand ones in aftermarket for under $40. No separator needed - not a taepred joint - just remove the nuts and they come right out.

I would have suggested this too, but Art was very insistent that the problem could not be duplicated - only occurred once in a blue moon or something like that. Usually the sway bar bushing/end link problem is easily duplicated.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

A very easy way to prove once and for all if it's either the sway bar bushings or end links is to completely remove one end link. If the noise doesn't recur with that off, then the problem is the sway bar bushings and/or end links. If the noise still recurs (how ever often you're experiencing it) with the end link removed, then the problem is elsewhere. Driving without the end link installed just means the sway bar will not be doing anything - no risk of damage or a safety concern driving with the end link removed.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

The Dodge dealer called me last night. They drove the car all around and it happened twice on them but they cannot duplicate it and they wanted to know if I could come up with any circumstances under which it was more likely to occur. Unfortunately the answer is no. I am waiting to hear from them today. I'll let you guys know. I will probably have them change the sway bar bushings and end links no matter what.

Reply to
Art

Please let us know what ultimately resolves the problem. Thanks in advance.

Reply to
RCSnyder

So far the Dodge dealer cannot figure it out. They had the car on the lift first thing in the morning with someone turning the wheel and someone checking around underneath with an emphasis on the rack. They could not get it to clunk. They will try again tomorrow after it sits overnight. The Dodge dealer, just like the Chrysler dealer is absolutely sure that the sway bar bushings and everything else is tight. My plan is if they give up is to just tell them to go ahead and change those sway bar bushings in any case.

Reply to
Art

Art,

I'm not at all surprised. The bushings cannot, I repeat, cannot be diagnosed by looking at them on a rack.

The rubber simply hardens and the clunk you hear is the bar bouncing against hard rubber.

New bushings are softer and stay in contact with the bar in all but the most violent of bumps.

If the bushings have been on the car for more than 3 years and/or in a variety of climactic conditions, they are probably hard to the point that they are the source of the noise.

Once they replace them and the noise goes away, how do you plan on recouping your repair and inconvenience costs to this point?

Bob

Reply to
RCSnyder

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