"Cash for clunkers" -- charitable donations of cars plummet

I am lucky enough to not have been hassled about it myself but I feel the same way as you about my van. The part that makes the C.A.R.S. program deplorable to me is what the dealers have to do to them (sodium silicate) to get reimbursed.

'95 Grand Caravan SE 3.3L FWD

233,230 miles. 21.9 MPG over the last 10,000 miles per the mini trip computer with soon to be replaced bad lower ball joints (thus bad front end alignment and chewed up tires) and noisy rear wheel bearings

You political junkies can avoid wasting our time with your "set in your ways" political alignments.

Lets get on the subject or I'll filter you out! I'd hate to do that because I do get some good ideas from here.

Why do you and your wingnut whackjob "birther" "open carry" faux KoolAid drinking ilk feel obligated to constantly and outrageously lie about the facts of these programs?

Are you that friggin stupid? Are you sheep? Or just mendacious without bounds?

Definitely YES!

Of course you can, just stick the car subject. I have no trouble doing that. Politics and religion are very driven by emotion, here we talk about (car) facts.

I'll not comment on the political dribble in the rest of your post.

Ahhh - yes. Saul Alinsky's patented Rules for Radicals nos. 5 and 12:

"RULE 5: 'Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.' There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.

"RULE 12: 'Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.' Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.

I think Pelosi, Frank, Obama et al are learning how these rules are no longer working in a communicating and thinking society. The lies are too easy to spot.

I haven't got time to point out the falsehoods and inconsistencies in all of those. But for one, Obama, Frank, Emanuel have all explicitly and unmistakenly stated in the past that single payer is the ultimate goal. (Here's a video of Obama saying *precisely* that: Sebelius and Frank have said that the healthcare "public option" is the first step towards a single payer system.

Frank on single payer:

Anything they say to the contrary *now* is a lie to cover up the real agenda.

Hmm - those Rules 5 and 12 appear again. Nice use of your training. But again - no longer effective. You guys need to go back to the drawing board. Alinsky is dead.

Here's something to consider on the cost of what's been proposed:

In 1966 Medicare was projected to cost $12 billion by 1990. It cost $108 billion ? 9 times that estimate. Prorating that against the CBO's projected $1 trillion cost for health care reform, that means in 10 years it would cost $3.5 trillion.

For those interested (if not interested, don't read them), here are Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals in full. Enjoy:

"RULE 1: 'Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.' Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. 'Have-Nots' must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)"

"RULE 2: 'Never go outside the expertise of your people.' It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the 'real' issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)"

"RULE 3: 'Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.' Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)"

"RULE 4: 'Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.' If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)"

"RULE 5: 'Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.' There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)"

"RULE 6: 'A good tactic is one your people enjoy.' They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid 'un-fun' activities, and we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)"

"RULE 7: 'A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.' Don't become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)"

"RULE 8: 'Keep the pressure on. Never let up.' Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)"

"RULE 9: 'The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.' Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)"

"RULE 10: 'If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.' Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)"

"RULE 11: 'The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.' Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)"

"RULE 12: 'Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.' Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works."

Indeed, yours, for example.

And those outrageous lies and misrepresentations of your wingnut whackjob "birther" "open carry" faux KoolAid drinking cretinous creatures.

While true as stated, intelligent decisions in both politics and religion are also driven by facts. In this NG, car-related politics are just as relevant as the choice of spark plugs.

My, what a totally vacuous remark.

Um, I'd suggest sooner rather than later. I suspect your noisy wheel bearings are really the CV joints that are about to shed their balls, if they haven't already..... /mark

The CV joints are fine as i check them for torn boots and play on a regular basis and the driver's side half shaft is new as of a few thousand miles ago. It is definitely the rear wheel bearings growling some. I have the new ball joints sitting waiting to be installed and the van is currently parked until I get them changed and get some more tires as the right front slowly went flat a few days ago.