Do Chrysler Minivans last a long time?

That's a fair question.

Of all the vans I've owned, one was a Mitsubishi 4 cylinder 1986 model (didn't like it...) two were 3.3 liter engines which both leaked oil like a tanker stuck on a coral reef, and the others were 3.0 engines. For the past 8 years I've worked as a courier, which is how I've done the majority of my driving. I put on about 50 to 60 thousand miles a year. 4 or 5 of these vans, including the two with larger engines, have been driven by my wife, who goes about 10 or 15 thousand a year. Ironically, she always has more mechanical trouble than I do. I buy almost every vehicle I own at the auction, some for as little as 50 bucks. Actually, now that I think of it, four of these vans came from private sales. But the point is that they always have over 100,000 miles when I get them, sometimes as much as 190,000, and I don't pay a lot. I put them right on the road and go. I have had the best luck with the 3.0. I'll have to admit that I like the water pump on the 3.3 engine, but other than that the two 3.3s I've had seemed like tired, greasy, noisy contraptions compared to the 3.0. Both of them had noisy valves, possibly even one stuck. I have done 3 water pump/timing belt changes on the 3.0, which really isn't that big of a deal after you've done it once. It isn't even that big of a deal to have a belt failure because the pistons don't hit the valves.

I don't know what you mean about the spark plugs. I have always changed spark plugs in the 3.0 by removing the air cleaner only. The use of a wobble socket helps in the case of the one under the alternator, but no major disassembly has ever been required. And I get great performance on $2 plugs.

I suppose that it's all subjective. I don't care what my vehicles look or sound like. In fact, I don't wash them because dirt is a theft deterrent. So I'm not into having a prestigious vehicle. I know you see a lot of minivans sitting at red lights with clouds of smoke wafting around, but when I go outside on a cold morning and turn the key, they always start right up and run, even if the valves are sometimes a bit noisy. Actually I have a suggestion for that, and your oil consumption problem. When you have an old engine that smokes and clatters, throw a bottle of Smoke-B-Gone in it and it will run as if it has only 90,000 miles instead of 250,000. I had one 3.0 that I drove to 275,000 miles, and it burned around a quart per 1,000 miles. Smoke-B-Gone cut the consumption down to about a quart every 4,000.

Reply to
Robbie and Laura Reynolds
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Thanks for the reply. Both the 3.3L and the 3.8L I've owned never dripped any oil on the garage floor, but for that matter my 1991 3.0L doesn't drip either, although all 3 have/had some minor leakage since the oil pans had/have some caked on oil build up.

Some additional comments in line to your reply below...

Bob

That is an enormous amount of driving in a year!

Interesting that your experience is the opposite oif mine. My 3.8L is very quiet and my 3.0L sounds like our old 15-year old Kenmore washing machine we just replaced.

You must have a lot more room in the engine compoartment. Doing my 3000GT was exemely difficult and required a special tool as well.

I believe my 222 HP DOHC is an interference design. Maybe if yours is a SOHC it may be different? My owner's and FSM specifically call for timing belt changes every 60AK miles as a preventive measure.

Again, sounds like a different design here. My intake manifold needs to come off completely to gain access to threee of my spark plugs. This necessitates new EGR and manifold gaskets. It is not as bad as the timing belt or water pump, but is a pain nonetheless..

Again, sounds very different here as well. Mitsu News/User groups warn against using anything other than the high performance NGK plugs, and given the PITA to get to them I have never used anything but. By the way, the local Mitsu dealer charges over $20 a plug for these. The best price I found for them on the Internet was $12 each plus shipping.

Additives are always a possibility for extending life and reducing consumption, but in my case it is a known design/manufacturing problem with the early 3.0L valve stems. I basically need to rebuild the heads but just would prefer to wait since I did not have the funds when I did the timing belt and water pump last year at just under 120K.

I do agree with you that the vans are fairly reliable. The real weak spot was the 4 speed transmission. My first, a 1990 needed replacement at 6.5 years and 48K miles (done under Chrysler's 7 year 70K mile warranty which came with the van new.) We have just turned 70K miles on our 1999 T&C and it still pretty much runs like it did when it was brand new. I change the transmission fluid and filter every 30K miles in the hopes that it will give us another 5-6 years of trouble free performance. The only real problem we have had was a cracked flywheel at just under 3 years and 36K miles (again replaced under the factory warranty) and an output speed sensor failure. There have been a few factory recalls (clockspring, seat heaters come to mind) and the brakes are not as good as they should be (25K miles average between front pads and rotors have been replaced 2X, but otherwise it has given us good service and we have been happy with the vehicle

Bob .

Reply to
Bob Shuman

The mechanic you know is clueless. My 96 Grand Voyager has 175,000 on the original transmission and it has been untouched other than routine fluid and filter changes. I have these done at a Chrysler dealer so they may have also updated the transmission control software, but I don't know that for sure as it has never been so listed on the bill.

I did have some trouble that began on the last leg of a long trip I took this weekend that may possibly be transmission related, but I'm not sure yet. Look for a post from me shortly with the symptoms. However, even if my transmission dies tomorrow, it certainly proves wrong the assertion of your mechanic acquaintance.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Consumer Reports says that the Chrysler is one of the worst bets for a used car purchase. Whether it is the transmission or not, I do not know. My personal thought is that it is based upon volume. There are bound to be more problems with the Chrysler minivans reported because they sell more vans.

I've just never heard anything good about them other than they are roomy. from "professional" reviews. All the good I have heard from them is purely anecdotal....not that that is not valid.

Reply to
needin4mation

Obviously a totally different engine...

Reply to
Robbie and Laura Reynolds

Yes Dan, they work fine. My 83.5 Voyager is still running fine. I just have to get someone to solder a fusible link for me before I get my beast going again. (I found out why the link melted by the way - and corrected the problem).

At one stage I had to replace the exhaust system - and I thought they originally had a stainless steel exhaust system in them. Oh well, mine runs and runs... even though it is one of the original carburetted ones...

Mine runs really well in the winter on Mohawk "gasohol (10% ethanol). I am not worried one bit on efficiency or mpg at -35C - just as long as it starts and runs well at those temps. In the warmer weather (like right now near 0C) I just use regular Co-op gasoline (at 88.9 cents/liter - what a bargain as compared to the $1.39/l this past August in Kapuskasing).

Ken Winnipeg

Reply to
Ken Pisichko

I dunno, my '93 Grand Voyager has been amazingly reliable. 3.0L/3-speed, modded with a wheelchair ramp. My father got it new and it went through a fuel pump early on, the A/C has crapped out at least twice, a couple of cat-backs, but really nothing else major had been done to it until I took possession when my father passed away last winter. Even now the only things engine-wise have been normal items, ie. plugs (dirt simple with the aircleaner housing off)/leads/cap/rotor, a pair of thermostats this year, etc.. 186k kms on it, it doesn't leak a drop and has never been torn into. No smoke and she starts right up every time (well after the ignition parts it does, it was LONG overdue). Original accessories and timing belt. The front end has always kind of sounded dry but it hasn't been a problem in twelve years now. The tranny fluid and filter have been changed several times but like the engine, it has never been torn into. That kickdown linkage likes to bind though, causing rough shifts. Overall it has been a fantastic vehicle.

Just a few weeks ago I pitched the OEM struts. Twelve years isn't too bad... ;) Now if only I could find a pair of those modified hydraulic shocks for the rear...

Reply to
SBlackfoot

Reply to
jdoe

that's good you can still do that. do they let you turn on the engines in these auctions? do they have "good" or "fair" or just no indications of the car's conditions? a good auction or private sales and courier work go together. it's amazing if you expect the vehicle to work and you need it for work - it just works a lot of times, even all day or night long work jobs. sounds silly but true dat. now about the addidtive below:

that's really helpful to know. i once put Bardahl's gunk in an Oldsmobile with a V-8 and I feel it fouled up the catalytic converter in a short period of time, maybe a coincidence. so i'll keep this in memory. thanks.

Reply to
treeline12345

unless it had recently had a new transmission (or two) because he said the transmission on these vehicles only last about 60,000 miles.

Reply to
Steve

Are you sure about this? I thought the electronically controlled transmissions "knew" better than to shift gears while still moving at any appreciable speed.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Reply to
philthy

Nice to hear good feedback about my unconventional methods. Usually anybody who talks like this on Usenet is just asking to be jumped on by every professional mechanic reading the group. But the fact is that used cars are a disposable commodity. Get them cheap, drive them until they quit, throw them away and get another one. And you're correct that courier work is custom made to go along with auto auctions. I can't understand the guys who make payments and put 100,000 miles on their vehicles in two years. That's a very bad plan in my book.

At the auctions here in Kansas City you can start the engines and put them in gear, but not drive around the lot. I've found a few vans with transmissions that were on their way to failure. You can turn everything on, run the A/C, etc. But other than that there are no guarantees. You buy it, you're stuck with it. But I've never bought a lemon. My $50 Caravan had a radiator failure on the way home.... But I've had great luck in general.

I would think that anything that cuts the amount of oil going into the converter would help keep it from fouling, but I could be wrong. Lucas also works well, but it costs more. The other thing is that when the engine gets a ton of miles on it you can forget about the thin oil specified in the owner's manual. I always use SAE 40. It lasts a lot longer and keeps the parts from smacking together so loudly and severely. Whenever I buy an old van that has thin oil and I change it to SAE 40 I can always tell a big difference. There's also something magical about running the vehicle 200 miles every day. Whenever I start up my spare van that's been sitting for months, sometimes it will make so much racket that you would think it's going to throw a rod. But when it's on the road every day it settles down into a more normal and comforting sound.

Reply to
Robbie and Laura Reynolds

That's the truth. After my friend spent thousands trying to get his tranny fixed, I drove with him once. AWFUL. I told him, you don't shift into drive while going in reverse. Literally using it as a brake, as you kind of joked. What a wookie he is.

But there was a problem with the computer software and the electronically controlled clutch upshifting too slowly and destroying the torque converter. This was fixed around 1995 announced with a factory bulletin. But one could rebuild a tranny and it would start to self-destruct if the place [Cottman] did not update the Tranny Control Module [TCM] with the latest firmware. This was the famous 37 or 42 mph shudder. I tried once to discuss this with Cottman, what a funny conversation. Computer update? The dealer came through like a true champ. But I could not discuss this with independents or chain other than the dealer. You would have thought I was making this all up. Very expensive or expert mechanics knew what I was talking about - but not the ones around me.

Reply to
treeline12345

Your methods are not unconventional if you know your way around the vehicles you're interested in. It's working for you. You have the right attitude, so it works for you. Others might get put off by the fuzziness of just picking a car out of the blue.

What's the secret for telling a transmission going south if you can't drive the vehicle? You just run the tranny through its gears. Wait, I remember, you press on the brake and use the accelerator and that will tell you something about the torque converter? It's been so long - something about the stalling out. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.

SAE 40. Yup. I remember going to a shop and getting racing oil, Kendall SAE 50, used to bring cars back from the realm of the dead. Little problem with oil pressure and the idiot light?, use SAE 50 or the 40, probably easier to find the 40.

I see your point about my using the Bardahl. The stuff was super thick, took forever to pour out of the bottle. It only worked briefly and then? It could have been a coincidence. I remember one old gent, had a cadillac, not a thing wrong with it. Went to Pep Boys, just had to tinker so got some engine additive or whatever to throw into it. BAD MOVE. His car never was as good after that. Coincidence? Some of these things are not good. But I noticed on a Mercedes group that they were using Smoke-B-Gone, so I am thinking, hmm, two recommendations now. Lucas? Don't think I've seen that around? Expensive? Anything Lucas does is expensive [bad pun?].

Reply to
treeline12345

The ones I've seen that were going bad all did the same thing. When placed in gear, either forward or reverse, they hesitate before they start doing anything.

I never tried anything that is supposed to "clean" your engine. It doesn't seem wise to clean crud out of an old engine unless you want to tear it apart later. All I want to do is cut down the quart per week oil habit when I'm driving an oil-burner. Smoke-B-Gone is cheap and gooey. When I use it, I leave it stuck upside down in the oil filler hole at the end of the day when the engine is hot.

I'm thinking of going to the auction this week to see if I can get a good deal on something to replace my 89 with the bad transmission. I saw a 92 3.3L sell for $450 last week, and it had only 132,000 miles on it.

Reply to
Robbie and Laura Reynolds

It's an OK engine once its design flaws are addressed, and as long as the owner is fastidious about top-end maintenance.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Condemner Retards says a lot of hilarious stuff.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Well, keep in mind the manifolding and head are totally different, and hinder access to a much greater degree in the 3KGT than in the Chryslers.

Correct.

Correct.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

I've never tried it for the obvious reason. It just seems amazing to me that with all of the software and "intelligence" in these transmissions, they would use some of it to prevent the transmission from doing self-destructive things. I know mine won't downshift if the speed is such that the redline would be exceeded. You can shift into low gear at

80 MPH and it won't shift down into 1st gear. It will shift down, but only as far as it can without over-revving the engine.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

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