More like: "Ruined an already bad brand", if you ask me.

Interesting -- I wonder what Cordes's relationship with Zetsche is like? I could easily imagine that he's decided to leave before getting fired....

+--------------------------------------+ \ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 / \ \ 1 9 / \ 0 \ 10 / \ \ TROLL-O-METER / \ \ / \ \ / \___\______________________/ \ / \....................../ +----------+ | PLEASE | | DO NOT | | FEED THE | | TROLLS | +----------+ | | | | .\|.||/..

I don't think your criticisms square with the facts. Chrysler is pretty successful right now. They are the only manufacturer of the big three that is turning a profit at the present time because their cars are the only ones (of the big three) selling right now. While I don't especially care for the styling of some of their present offerings, I certainly am happy with my old Chrysler iron. It is Mercedes that is not doing well financially.

I think a lot of people in this group don't really understand that what motivates automakers is to sell cars.

They don't sell cars to the general population. Nor do they sell to the population of people who actually have a clue about how a car works. Nor do they sell to the population of people who actually have a clue as to what the difference is between a good car and a POS.

Automakers sell to a select group of people called "New car buyers" who are comprised of a majority of people who have more money than they know what to do with, and therefore buy or lease brand new vehicles every year (or every other year) and a minority of people who buy a new car once a decade. This group is extremely fickle in it's tastes and appears to make buying decisions based on the opinions of a group of car pundits who know even less than they do (if possible) and who seem to judge a car by how many and how large the cup holders are in it, and who hold forth in forums that regularly appear in the sorts of periodicals one regularly finds in the local dentists office waiting rooms, or stuck in airplane seat backs.

Chrysler figured this out and managed to get a group of air-heads plugged into venues that other air-heads hang out in, and who came up with some of the ugliest (to normal people) designs imaginable - designs embraced by this totally-disconnected-from- reality group of consumers known as New Car Buyers.

Ford and GM didn't do this and so their more mundane but practical designes fell "out of fashion" as they were lacking enormous front ends, little slitty windows, and wheels the size of manhole covers.

Ted

Dan, I assume you are pretending to be a Troll; very funny. The only thing "horrible" about my 01 PT Cruiser Limited automatic is its very wide turning circle, lack of power, and only fair fuel economy. Otherwise it is interesting to look at, very flexible in its use configurations and [except for the sway bar components] very well built and reliable.

Richard.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005, "Richard"

Richard, you thundering moron, you've done it again. Failed to read carefully enough to discern who said what and who responded to it how. And now you've misattributed to me what somebody else said. Idiot.

I think a lot of people in this group don't really understand that what motivates automakers is to sell cars.

They don't sell cars to the general population. Nor do they sell to the population of people who actually have a clue about how a car works. Nor do they sell to the population of people who actually have a clue as to what the difference is between a good car and a POS.

Automakers sell to a select group of people called "New car buyers" who are comprised of a majority of people who have more money than they know what to do with, and therefore buy or lease brand new vehicles every year (or every other year) and a minority of people who buy a new car once a decade. This group is extremely fickle in it's tastes and appears to make buying decisions based on the opinions of a group of car pundits who know even less than they do (if possible) and who seem to judge a car by how many and how large the cup holders are in it, and who hold forth in forums that regularly appear in the sorts of periodicals one regularly finds in the local dentists office waiting rooms, or stuck in airplane seat backs.

Chrysler figured this out and managed to get a group of air-heads plugged into venues that other air-heads hang out in, and who came up with some of the ugliest (to normal people) designs imaginable - designs embraced by this totally-disconnected-from- reality group of consumers known as New Car Buyers.

Ford and GM didn't do this and so their more mundane but practical designes fell "out of fashion" as they were lacking enormous front ends, little slitty windows, and wheels the size of manhole covers.

Ted

____________________________________

Marketing and image are EVERYTHING!!!!!!

Whereas engineering, quality manufacturing and servicing are not?

Actually the Ford 500 would sell like hotcakes if it had an engine and if the driver didn't have to shoe horn is legs into position. The area for the driver's bottom half is incredibly cramped and I am not a big guy.

Dan; what do you really think. You are far too reserved. [You are right of course, I should never have assumed that you had such a good sense of humor].

Richard.

I really think you're a f****it.

It happens with some frequency.

Ted,

This is one of the most intelligent bits of analysis I've seen recently. You don't have to be a marketing specialist to figure out how the new car business works. Talk to some of your friends and acquaintances who buy new cars. Very few of them seem to be able to make a rational decision based on practicality or value. Most seem to watch what everybody else is buying, and get one in their favorite color. By definition, those who have good enough sense to let somebody else take the huge loss of value on a new car are not the market that the manufacturers are courting.

As this pertains to the question of whether or not an auto manufacturing company is being run in an intelligent manner, how difficult must it be to market a product aimed directly at a bunch of folks who have more money and enthusiasm than good sense? You could say the same about yachts or golf clubs, but even those markets aren't as goofy as the new car market. A car is an inherently practical purchase, because in our society just about everyoby has to have one. But a new car buyer is by definition not a smart shopper, unless he/she has money to burn. I wouldn't want to be in charge of pitching a product to that market. Most of us are way too practical to be good at it.

He forgot to add that marketing and image are everything, if you lack engineering, and quality manufacturing and servicing. Then again, image comes more from engineering and quality than from marketing, at least over more than a few years. Toyota didn't get the image they currently have from good marketing, that's for sure!

Matt

You forgot to insert "low" before frequency.

Matt

Well that's not the case across the board - remember I said that there's a minority of people who buy a new car once a decade (or longer) and drive it until it's got 200K miles on it and/or the wheels are ready to fall off. Add to that corporations who buy vehicles for fleet use, and are very concerned with maintainence costs. But these are definitely a minority.

It would be most interesting to know what the numbers are of the percentage of new cars that are sold at various ages. It is probably a bell curve, such as 10% resold at age 1, 15% resold at age 2,

20% resold at age 3 and so on, tapering off at age 8, 9, 10. But that is just a guess, I'm sure that the aftermarket parts suppliers have already done such analysis.

Ted

There's also a very small subset that doesn't think about buying a new car but will when something really exceptional comes along. That sort of describes me when VW came out with the 180HP 1.8T in the GTI and also I think a lot of new Mustang buyers (who otherwise would have kept their old 5.0s going indefinitely)

nate

Maybe it has something to do with this news item..

U.S. probing alleged DaimlerChrysler bribes Criminal investigation centers on automaker's Mercedes unit

The Associated Press Updated: 10:53 a.m. ET Aug. 5, 2005

FRANKFURT, Germany - DaimlerChrysler AG said Friday it is cooperating with the U.S. Justice Department, which is investigating claims that the company=3Fs Mercedes Car Group may have paid bribes to foreign officials and that senior executives were aware of it.

DaimlerChrysler spokesman Toni Melfi said the investigation was linked to an inquiry last year by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. That investigation began after a former Chrysler accountant in Detroit claimed the company kept secret bank accounts with which to bribe foreign officials.

Melfi did not say how many countries or how many people were being investigated. The Wall Street Journal, citing unidentified U.S. officials, said Friday the claims centered on a dozen countries and that senior executives in Stuttgart, Germany, were aware of it. Story continues below

Justice Department officials did not immediately return calls for comment.

The German-American automaker had mentioned that it was cooperating in the investigations in its July 28 earnings report and said its internal investigation had not reached any conclusions as to whether any laws were broken. It added that adjustments to past earnings reports may be required as it completes its investigation.

The Journal said German officials were also investigating after 53-year- old Rudi Kornmayer, the managing director of a Mercedes plant in Nigeria, shot and killed himself in a park in Esslingen on July 22.

Prosecutors in Stuttgart said he left a suicide note behind, but it provided no details on the claims.

Damn, someone at Chrysler's been spending too much time reading Wheels (Arthur Hailey)

Ted

Interesting analysis. In the UK for years the vast majority of cars purchased actually went to companies, so you can imagine the criteria. (This started as a result of a particular tax regime.) Overall cost of ownership and availability of different levels of equipment for difference levels of saleman...

Now that there is a shift towards the private buyer (because of changing tax circumstances) and a more flexible approach by fleet buyers it is interesting to see how the best-seller list changes. The disappearance of a 'British' volume car has also played a role, though now the Fords and Toyotas built in Britain count as such.

Ford still had the number-one-selling model, however.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling