One reason DRLs shouldn't be opposed...

Hmm.. I just thought about it and maybe my knowledge of airplanes isn't as good as I thought. Do they have yokes that control thrust and braking? I can't imagine having all those controls on the yoke is as easy to operate as separate thrust and directional controls. Afterall, they made the helicopter and I even read someone was developing a control that had both the collective and the cyclic built into one.

Many of the American Boeing aircraft have both yokes and joysticks because American pilots demand the yokes. The joystick only controls the attitude of the aircraft, not the thrust and braking. These functions are controlled at the throttle quadrant. Many of the European airliners, particularly Airbus, do not have yokes....only a 'small-throw' joystick, one for each pilot. Only one joystick is operational at a time and a strict procedure is followed to transfer control.

Arthur

Hmmm... pilots enjoy being able to remove their hands from thier joysticks from time to time, this made possible by auto-pilot and not having to maintain a narrow track between yellow and white lines. Try this simple experiment in your car. Chose only one steering wheel location on which you will use only one hand for the duration of your next longer-than-a-few- minutes drive. Do you still want to operate your car with a joystick?

This seems a specious argument to me. I can see how vehicles without DRLs would fail to "stick out" if most other vehicles are DRL equipped, but I believe that DRLs prevent vehicles from blending in with the background regardless of how many vehicles are using them

Did it? Can you cite stats to that effect? It would seem counter- intuitive to me, as I can think of several examples where the third stop lamp is visible when the others may be obscured, regardless of how accustomed we become of them.

I'm an engineer. I didn't write it, but I don't see any mistake, nor do I see any assumption that could be off by more than a factor of 2 either direction.

I'm still waiting for some mathematics that support YOUR "belief" that it isn't significant....

Just because one waste is bigger than another doesn't imply to me that we shouldn't try to eliminate the waste wherever possible. We've often pointed out on this newsgroup that carmakers will skimp on components (eg. brake rotors) to save a few ounces per vehicle in order to improve mileage, yet GM is lobbying to throw away all the fuel it takes to run DRLs, which have questionable benefit at best.

And many computers these days have pretty sophisticated power management systems that reduce the power they burn when not in use quite a bit. Of course it often depends on your settings, but they're getting better.

Ted's been citing the novelty effect for CHMSLs for a couple of years now. Every once in awhile he comes out of his stupor long enough to re-type it, that's all.

--Geoff

Larry Bud wrote:

When you turn on an electrical load, for example DRLs, the voltage in the car's electrical system drops slightly. The voltage regulator senses this drop, and in response it increases the flow of current to the "field" (or "rotor") coil of the alternator. The increased current flowing through the field coil of the alternator creates a stronger magnetic field rotating with the rotor, which has a stronger interaction with the fixed, or "stator" coils of the alternator, which causes a larger current to flow in them. The larger current is rectified and fed to the output terminal of the alternator, thus stabilizing the voltage and providing power to the load you just switched on. A byproduct of this is that with the larger magnetic field generated by the rotor, and its stronger interaction with the fixed stator coils, is that there is increased DRAG on the rotor, which must be made up for by an increased torque supplied to the alternator pulley by the gasoline engine. The increased load on the gasoline engine is sensed by the Engine Management System, which slightly opens the idle-air control valve, allowing more air to enter the intake manifold. The mass air-flow sensor or MAP sensor, depending on design of the engine, detects the increased air flow and the ECM then increases fuel flow to the injectors, supplying the added power needed to turn the alternator when it becomes harder to turn because of the increased field current due to the voltage regulator detecting a drop in voltage because you TURNED ON YOUR FRICKING DRLs.

Any questions??

Absolutely wrong. See above.

Uh, Matt? That IS a big part of the emissions claim.

Misfire = greater emissions, false misfire detection= emission system "false alarms." By using an automatic transmission, the emission system "false alarm rate" can be reduced, so that it can operate at a higher "probability of detection" for a real misfire, thus producing a fleet of cars with lower emissions.

Me too, but now I see many many more instances. At least 20 times more often than I used to before DRLs.

How is the increased load sensed by the ECM? Via monitoring RPM, possibly, but how?

Nicely written, by the way.

--Geoff

Also, when the alternator is "full-fielded" does that mean it's seeing the full 13.8 volts at that terminal, and the alternator is then by definition putting out maximum capacity?

-Geoff

"Arthur Alspector" wrote in news:LntPc.636$ snipped-for-privacy@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:

A yoke controls both roll and pitch. There is no joystick when you have a yoke. Boeing uses yokes, Airbus uses slide sticks.

My Stude probably weighs about 3200-3300 lbs. with a significant amount of that weight on the front wheels, and Daniel is correct, it's very pleasant to drive, even with P195 radials (much wider than the stock 6.50 bias plys) on the front.

nate

Crankshaft and/or camshaft sensor.

Hey Dan, bite me. Are you an asshole in real life, or just on usenet?

There is hardly a discussion of any calculations here, except for the info on howstuffworks, and they don't break it down per vehicle. 400 million gals/year is peanuts. Nowhere in their "calculations" do they indicate the number of cars, or covert that into MPG. So I'll do that for you Dan.

According to the same data that HSW is using (all 1997 data)

Big freakin' deal. Let's take that further:

In 1997, average MPG/vehicles was 21.5. See:

So average mileage/vehicle has gone from 21.5 to 21.43 because of DRL.

BIG DEAL.

Not really an important correction, since you put in the IIRC yourself: but HP built a couple of series of computers with names like HP1000 and HP3000; the PDP-11 was built by DEC.

The HP1000 might have been a reasonable choice for a trainer (the 3000 was a business computer), but the PDP-11 and its VAX-11 child was the world standard lab-type minicomputer for about 15 years in the 1970s and 1980s.

When the power system goes out it's much more difficult than a non-power system.

My '73 has no power options. Manual all around. Yes, steering is heavier but not that I even notice in normal driving. The brakes, well since the brembo conversion on the mustang both are about as heavy pedal feel wise, as is the clutch after I put in the aluminium quadrant (replacing the cheapo plastic OEM one). Which is the way I like it. I prefer firm pedals where I can feel the car, not mush. The more disconnected I am from the vehicle the less safe, the less in control I feel. I would never would like a fly by wire system that felt like I was in a video game. I'd rather have feedback than fake feedback as well.