Re: Group seeks law on window switches

Reminds me of the time, while dropping a dog off at my kennel, I left

*another* dog in my old Audi with pushbutton automatic locks. You can see it coming. This rambunctious basset (Try imagining *that*!) managed to slap one huge paw on the driver's doorlock button with my keys still in the ignition (Off!), locking *us* out and *him* in. Ever try talking a basset hound into unlocking a car? Fortunately, my wife was more understanding - and had her keys in her purse.

That, in turn, reminds me of why there was no threat of his hitting the rocker window switches in the car: they were mounted *vertically* on the door panels in the back. Also, anyone with an old Audi knows the damn switches rarely work *intentionally*, so there's no danger of accidental activation. Then, there's the design in my '87 BMW that, while retaining the design fault (a pushdown rocker switch facing upwards), places the front switches not on the doors, but on the console between the front seats and the rear ones, like the Audi, mounted vertically on the door panels.

Well, in *cheapass* cars like GM builds, I couldn't tell you. In the ones I drive (BMW, Jaguar), they all *still do*.

See what I mean?

-- C.R. Krieger (Just *drive* it!)

D'oh. Now that you say it, I even remember seeing it, right out in plain sight. Says something about the age of my children, I guess...

Living in the UK, a land with rear fogs (mandatory) I can only say that they are more useful than front fog lights. Yes, in fog and heavy rain the (single bright red) fog light is a boon in seeing the car in front. (And no, we don't get pea-soupers very often, despite the impression you might get from Dickens novels.)

In my car I have a mechanical solution for automatically switching off the fog lights when the lights as such are switched off, and this mechanism has been in place for years (decades?) in this brand.

The normal lights are switched on by turning a knob. The fog lights are switched on by pulling this knob. The pulled knob stays in position with fogs on only when it has been turned to switch the 'ordinary' lights on. First pull does the front fogs, second pull does the rear.

This applies to factory fitted, standard fogs. I suppose there is nothing to stop anyone fitting extra front fogs and wiring them accordingly so they stay on without any other lights. I don't know whether this is (i) possible or (ii) legal.

DAS

--

Yes, but the difference is that idiotproof rear fog switching is not currently *mandatory*, though some cars have it.

It is possible, and not legal except in the case of fog lamps used as Daytime Running Lamps in Canada.

DS

Joseph,

How do you explain that the rear windows in Mercedes-Benz roll ALL THE WAY down to the sill? Even for the US edition...and for 2003.

It's cheaper to manufacture the rear doors with just one window rather than two windows with movable larger portion and fixed smaller portion. That is if the shape of rear door is dog-legged to clear the rear wheel well.

Oliver

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

On my MB, you pull the headlight switch out one notch for the front fog lights and out a second notch for the rear. You can only do so when the headlight switch is turned on; you must push the switch all the way back in (turning off both fog lights) to turn the lights off.

After the first year, I believe the PT put rear window switches in the rear seat area (on the B-pillars maybe?).

The other option is to put in a feature than detects something in the way and reverses the window. Apparently a number of Japanese and European cars have this.

Lockout switches are worthless for deterring children. As soon as our 5 year old saw us flip the lockout switch on our T&C to prevent the door from being unlocked from the inside, from that point on every time the door was opened and he could get at that switch, he would turn it off. He likes being able to unlock and open the door himself from the inside to get out of the car when we stop somewhere, (although he is not yet strong enough to pull the door back from the inside) and he knows what the lockout does. This by the way is behavior that we are NOT happy about, and certainly did NOT encourage.

The kids love to imitate mommy and daddy, and most of them are a lot smarter than it seems that people in this NG give them credit for. (I suspect a lot of people here don't have kids, or don't pay close attention to the ones that they have) If the child is fascinated by cars, they are going to figure out what all the switches do quite quickly, including the ones that you don't want them to know about (like the rear A/C override in the front console, our 5 year old figured that one out within a few days too) and it is fascinating to them to flip switches.

Obviously the correct solution is supervision, but you cannot overestimate the stupidity of some parents. (like the bitch in the Midwest that locked her kid in the car all day while she played Everquest, and the kid died of heatstroke) A smart inquisitive child shouldn't have to pay with his life for his parent's stupid decisions.

Ted

No, the rear window switches in PT Cruisers are on the rear of the main console, up between the front seats. A seat-belted or car-seated child wouldn't be able to reach them. Of course, if the child(ren) are left alone in the car, they probably wouldn't be seat-belted too long, would they?

For a child (or anyone, for that matter) to get hurt by the power windows in a PT Cruiser, the lock out button would have to be off, and the keys would have to be in the car and in the "run" position. Anyone who leaves a child in the car, with the keys, well, that child needs more protection then a law about what type of switches are in the car.

SRG

I don't think even "older" models do. My '69 sure doesn't. I can't say I have a good enough memory of my parents' '53 New Yorker to say if it did or not. I certainly have no clear memory of any car with power windows that COULD be operated with the ignition off.

Such an arrangement is permitted in some places outside North America.

DS

The latest fad of the europhiles who think everything is better "over there" :-p

Seriously, they're just a switch design that has an overhanging tang that you put a finger under and pull up on to raise the window. I think the PT Cruiser has used them from the get-go, and only has a set mounted on the center console instead of switches on every door.

The whole "problem" is moot if the switches were still mounted on the vertical face of the door panel and recessed into the door as they are in my '69. Its rather hard to inadvertently raise OR lower them, as you have to actually press into a depression rather than push on a raised nub, plus the fact that they're on the door rather than the armrest makes it much less likely that pressure will even be applied near them accidentally.

Not lowering mine ... trying to *raise* yours. ;^)

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that)

Dori Schmetterling wrote: .

The Dodge Intrepid, Eagle Vision, and Chrysler Concorde were that way from day one in 1993 (front fogs only, no rear).

But a lot of idiots just make "twist and yank" there standard way of turning on the headlamps and use the fogs EVERY time they use the low beams. I know of no cure for that stupidity other than an air turbidity detector that would only allow foglights when its actually foggy (or smoky).

...

Went to pick up a new car with the children and right in front of them the salesman shows us the "door lockout" switch! Guess what? Of course I wanted to stop him but he was too quick - you know salesmen. - RM

Not gonna happen with a BMW or Jag.

For what it's worth - the all Chrysler vehicles sold in Australia have a rear fog - Wrangler, Voyager etc. They are 'optional' here though in my view should be a mandatory item for most categories.

Or through police enforcement and having front and rear text included in your State driver manuals. Each year a new generation of drivers - better get started.

JP

I don't know what you're driving but I've never seen power window switches where pressing down on them raises the window. That's completely counter intuitive. My current 98 stratus drops the window if you press down on the power window switch. I would also agree that if you don't want your kids messing with the windows, press the lockout switch, that's what it there for.

Give me a break, soo these people will want us wearing full bod y armour when we get up in the morning. you never know, you could stumble on the clothes you left on the floor, trip and bounce off the chair in the corner and end up out the closed window!