Ford's latest "innovation"

Geoff Mackenzie ("Geoff Mackenzie" ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Nobody bought it.

Dunno about that far back, but VW certainly did it in the '80s, didn't they? Citroen have been doing it as "Stop-Start" for about five years, BMW are doing it on the new Mini, and that's before you go near the various Hybrids.

Indeed...

I'm not sure about before the World war I as then starter motors were not that common.

Rover and I think others had the Lucas Startix system in the late 30s that did the same thing. It wasn't a great success and I think most people disabled it.

Malcolm

VAG did it in the 80s (my dad's Audi 80 - a 1980 one - had it), ISTR you had a button to enable the system, coming to a halt and doing /something/ make the engine stop, then pressing brake and clutch and again, doing /something/ with the gearlever in Neutral made it restart.

Then they remarketed it in the 90s as part of the Golf Umwelt.

And now it's showing up in their Bluewhatsit diesel models.

RichardK

Claimed to be the first FWD with transverse packaging - but the 1949 Saab

Well Citroen were making FWD cars in the UK long before the Mini appeared. Could be the Mini was the first in class to use it. Before it most ultra small cars were rear engined.

A good link with history of front wheel drive is at

I'm sure I read somewhere that the small BMW petrol engine used in the latest Minis and Peugeot 207s doesn't have a throttle valve but instead uses variable valve timing and lift to achieve the same effect.

Just like the 1904 Darracq....

Ron Robinson

Citroen Traction Avant. 1934 was the first FWD car AFAIK. Mike.

My Boys Book of Cars says Alvis. ;-)

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Dave Plowman (News), managed to produce the following words of wisdom

The Cord L29 was FWD in 1929.

A year after the Alvis, then. Remind me where they made Cords in the UK?

Not even close, the Graef brothers voiturette 1900.

Not even nearly. There were several Alvii (road cars as well as racers), Millers (mostly racers, may have been a few road cars) and maybe even Cords before that, plus - and now we're talking pre-WW1 - Ferdy Porsche's Loehner designs were FWD, using petrol-electric drive with the motors in the hubs (thus proving that Porsche had an unerring eye for a flawed solution...). And, way back when, Nicholas Cugnot's steam tractor - the first full-size mechanically-propelled vehicle - was FWD. In 1769. Which is a bit before the Traction Avant.

It's be accurate to say that the Traction Avant was - eventually - the first commercially successful FWD car (I say "eventually", as putting it into production caused the collapse of the Citroen company and its take-over by Michelin).

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Ian Dalziel, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

Pah.

As, IIRC, was the first BSA fwd.

BSA eventually built about 7,000 fwd cars in the '30s, not quite in Citroen territory, but quite respectable production for the time.

Damn. I should have remembered the Besa. Someone I knew used one as a daily driver up until a couple of years ago.

The date being 17 Jan 2008, Richard Kilpatrick decided to write:

No I don't think anyone really thinks the Mini was the first FWD car!

Very little in the original Mini was actually a new idea. What Alec Issigonis did was bring together all the ideas (transverse engine, gearbox in the sump, front wheel drive, constant velocity joints, rubber suspension, monocoque shell, etc.) in a single, very compact package.

The next version of this system is in development, and it could be on this car, is starting the engine without the starter motor. The ECU does a controled stop when the engine is switched off so it stops in a certain position, then to start an injector fires and the plug sparks and this starts the engine. This only works on a hot engine. This, direct injection, turbo charging and loads of EGR will be standard on all petrol engines in 10 years time. S