Stop and go? Nothing new!

The Goggomobile Royale had a combined unit on the end of the crankshaft. Under normal conditions it charged the battery. When you operated the starter, a relay changed some wiring and the battery spun the engine with it. It worked well, and with no bendix and starter ring it was almost silent until the engine fired.

Jim

IIRC, Dynastart.

That's interesting - would there be any detrimental effect from repeatedly doing this? If not, why isn't this system used to start all engines - ie. a single spark, or cascade of sparks starting from the cylinder likely to have most "charge" left in it...

...somehow I think I've just answered my own question.

Could it be arranged that an electrically-derived fuel vapour cloud is added into all cylinders before the attempt, then spark ignited - compression may not be ideal but all you're looking for is a start. Wouldn't this be a more mechanically sympathetic way to start a petrol engine rather than having to employ a starter motor, complete with it's battery-depleting downside and failure potential? I presume we're still using starter motors for a good reason...

Very curious. Need data input! Google it...

"Additionally, Bosch plans to add a cost-effective automatic 'start-stop'function to its injection system, to reduce fuel consumption in stop-and-gotraffic by turning the engine off automatically when it isn't needed. Thegentlest press of the accelerator starts the engine again, without the useof a starter motor.

This new function of the direct injection system can fire up a combustion engine simply by igniting the combustion mixture, so decreasing fuel consumption by 5%.

Dr Rolf Leonhard, vice-president of development, Gasoline Systems Division, admitted that on a very cold engine Directstart can't do the job alone, and so isn't a substitute for a starter motor, although the starter can be smaller and lighter."

I think that was the Dynastart, fitted to various bubble cars. Never heard of it being used for this application, though.

Geoff MacK

No, definitely internal combustion engine.

Geoff MacK

I was working for a software development company at the time the talking dashboard came out. One of the team came up with the idea of fitting a sensor to the brake pedal, so that if ever you used maximum (i.e. panic) braking the dashboard would say "oh, shiiiit".

The car got its revenge - he rolled one, and recalls hanging upside down from his seatbelt while the dashboard kept warning him his oil level was low.

Geoff MacK

On the 1928 Rolls-Royce 20 I used many years ago you could usually start the engine by simply turning on the ignition and swinging the advance/retard lever through full deflection. This would cause a spark in one of the cylinders, enough to start the engine. Good party trick.

Geoff MacK

It was on my BMW Isetta of 1961. Very effective, quiet starting and worked faultlessly for years. It even put up with the starter key being turned when running. I believe that the industry is thinking of going back to a similar system when cars go to 42V.

Graham Holloway

Like on Lotus Esprits?

Chris Morriss ( snipped-for-privacy@oroboros.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

"Lotus Esprit door handles, like Morris used for the Marina"

In article , Geoff Mackenzie writes

My 1926 20hp will still do this, although not every time. In old RR circles it is considered to be a rough test of whether everything is in reasonable tune.

It reminds me of a test used on Daimlers fitted with fluid flywheels. You drove the car forwards in first gear at about 2mph and then selected reverse. If the car came to a gentle stop and then started moving backwards the transmission was in good condition.

Peter

(Remove 'spam' to e-mail)

I agree with everything Geoff says, also cannot remember the specific vehicle. Sounds like it would happily accompany a pre-selector gearbox.

Peter

Used Morris Marina handles iirc..

sPonIx

I think you may be thinking of the Lucas Startix, which found it's way into all sorts of cars in the late thirties.

Siba Dynastart and a Bosch system was common on bikes.

Yamaha and Suziki used similar devices on the smaller 2 strokes of the

70's like the RD200 and GT185. As the dynamo doubled up as a starter it saved weight.

None of the older combined dynamo devices are up to frequent starts of stop go city traffic. Nor is any current DC conventional starter motor. They are all based on running the motor in a highly overloaded condition for a short time. Before re-starting it needs time to dissipate the heat that the overload condition causes.

Citroen Xsara Dynactive parallel hybrid uses a much higher powerAC generator/motor that can deliver the power needed to start theengine without running in overload. It also can use the electricmotor to assist the engine when power demand is high or without the ICengine for pulling off and low speed use. Along the way the engineers have forgotten a simple aid to quick starting with low cranking power demand. It's called a de-compressor. It was petty much only a motorcycle or other small engine thing so most car makers engineering departments would be completely unaware of the device. I've got copies of Ricardo's High speed internal combustion engine, Marter Engines and Newton and Steed's the Motor Vehicle - still the standard text after umpteen revisions and none of them mention the device.

but current C3 STOP AND START

to keep red hot brake pads in contact with red hot discs to stopmotor restarting. Going to be a whole lot of "warped" discs realsoon.

Possibly, but I'd guess that it would do nasty things to the emissions at start time - hence negating the whole idea.

These Startix were fitted to cars such as the A.C. They worked by sensing dynamo voltage and when the volts went below a certain level they kicked in the starter.

The other method of 'silent' starting was with a dynastart. This acts as a dynamo and doubles as a starter and the car appears to cough into life as if by magic.

Andy