If you were competing with Vette sellers from all over the country, would
you photograph your car sitting amid melting snow?
Somehow your point escapes me, most people know there is snow in Minnesota.
My guess it that there are also Corvette buyers there even when it snows,
has snowed, and/or will snow.
I realize they HAVE snow. I meant, photographing it in that setting
reminds prospective buyers of the salt & crap that makes it melt.
I doubt if I'd have anything but a beater out of the garage during the
slush & corrosion season...
Yes I would. It is always adviseable to provide pictures of the car you
are trying to sell. Are you suggesting that it would be better to list
the car for sale, without pictures, when there is snow on the
Nooo...just that I'd take the pictures in a spot, or from an angle, that
doesn't emphasize the snowmelt. Some people never let their Vettes get
rained on. I'm not that extreme, but I think a Z06 deserves to be kept
away from slush, gravel and road salt.
Just as I wouldn't buy Vettes with nitrous systems or aftermarket wings, I
would only consider a Rust Belt car that was put away (properly) for the
duration of crappy weather. I lived in an area that only got snow one or
two days a year when I had my C4, but I still used a "daily driver' all
If I were selling a used stove, I'd clean the oven and take the dirty pots
& pans off the burners before snapping the pics That wouldn't be false
advertising, just common-sense marketing.
That's all I meant. OK?
You can tell a Z06 that has had nitrous on it? You're a better man than I if
you can look at a car or have a seller tell you it was stored properly and
know it's true.
You don't clean up after yourself until you get ready to sell it????
Looks like we need to add rule number 76 to that list, "Don't buy a Corvette
that has had it's picture taken by a snow bank".
Just yanking your chain, I don't hold that kind of reverence to any object,
least of all a car. They were made to enjoy driving, not just to be stored
properly. None of the Corvettes I've owned were garage queens and some have
been in some pretty bad snow storms. Why would anybody pay that kind of
money to let it set and not enjoy driving it just so someone else can after
its sold????? If I want to look at something beautiful I go to the mall and
watch all of those bare midriffs that should be stored properly.
You've touched on a subject that will never be answered. Some will drive
them, some will just own them, others will beat hell out of them, still
others will bring them back to life because to all of them they are a
If you look at the pictures, you see a clean car, clean interior, no mud,
slush, water spray behind the wheels, not mud, slush, dirt on the carpets,
and so on. The car is right in front of the garage door and there is a Ford
Explorer or F150 in the drive. In 3 years, there has been 8013 miles put
on, or least than 3000 per year. A car like this, I could put 8000 a year
on and never hit snow.
So to me, it says he drives it little, it is not a daily driver, odds are he
does not drive in snow normally (hard to be never - service, maintenance,
caught out, etc.), and your fears are unfounded.
Rust. Grossly over-rated. Yes, we see C2 and C3 Corvettes with rusted out
frames. But it isn't a huge percentage, maybe 25% or less. And that may be
But these cars are 30 and 40 years old! In their initial years, they were
driven as daily drivers, often as the only car. After all, they were just a
car. Salt on the roads in winter was a lot more intense, because no one
knew or cared about environmental impact at the time.
Today, a car like this is the second, third, or fourth car. It may be a
daily driver, but usually only in good weather. They are frequently toys,
taken out only on good days.
Yes, it could rust out. Will you still have it in 20 years when it does?
To each his own. Some will only buy an automatic, others only a manual.
Some only a one-owner, others don't care. Some only a red or blue car,
others only a black, with still others a silver. That is one reason they
make so many varieties of cars, so you can buy the kind you want.
Are you saying that people should only advertise the kind you want, and if
it isn't, they are not allowed to advertise?
This implies fraud. Are you suggesting the seller is selling an abused,
snow-driven, salt-eaten, rust-bucket car and trying to prevent it is mint?
I don't see that in this ad. I see a typical winter driveway with snow
melting on the drive where it has been cleared, and a Corvette that has been
pulled out of the garage to be photographed for an eBay ad.
When I traded in my '98 I removed all the mods, about $3,500 worth. The guy
that bought it always liked mine and thought he was getting one that was
untouched. When he found out it was mine I sold him all of the mods and
helped him put them back on. In other words he bought the stick I beat it
with. So much for knowing if a car has been changed or raced because he
watched me do it for 5 years.
Now about that stored properly, I stored a '51 Chevy by driving it into an
empty chicken coupe and removing the battery. Three years later I returned
with a battery, pulled the choke out, pumped it and started it up with no
problem. My only hitch was the clutch was stuck fast to the flywheel which
broke loose about half way home, had to start it in gear and shift without
the clutch. By the way it was on a dairy farm well populated with fast,
furry, feline mouse traps. Drove it home 40 miles and then drained the oil
and half the gas and started taking it to the car shows and parades. Car is
still in a private collection and has a whopping 30,000 on it, never been
repainted. On top of that it is a rust belt car, Ohio and Michigan, before
the advent of precoated steel. The first owner lived in town and seldom
drove it and when he did he cleaned it top to bottom.
I'm still glad I'm not buying a mule from the rust belt, especially an
abused one. What was the stick for???
I think it's an attention-gitter. (but you knew that already.)
Now, since I answered your question, here's one for you.
Once and awhile, just for chuckles, I go and RTFB. Low and behold
here's a warning that says not to start the car by pushing it or pulling
it, lest ugly things happen to the CATconvertor. Warning for the C4 is
very specific. For the C5, it just says that push-starts won't work and
may damage the vehicle.
What's this all about?
I have no idea as pushing or pulling a car to start it went out in the 70's.
My guess would be that you would mess up the computers mind and the
resulting wetting of its pants (convert with fuel) would be a problem.
What's your thoughts?
I've not thought seriously about push-starts since the arrival of
urethane bumper covers. It just "seemed" wrong but in the back of my
mind, I had it tucked away as a 'contingency.'
Before today, if I had a dead 'vette at the top of a hill, I'd have
tried to coast to a start if there wasn't an available jump.
For the C5 my intuition told me, that 25 mph in second or third gear
equaled a guaranteed start. --wrong!
Until today, if someone asked how the C4 (auto) would push-start, I'd
have said that the rear pump in the tranny made that happen. --wrong!
Just checked the shop manual--there is no rear pump in a 700R4. Wonder
when that vanished?
Am still puzzled though about that statement in the '89 manual. Wonder
what failure mechanism actual leads to trashing of the catalytic
converter during a push-start.
The statement that triggered the initial post was:
Page 3-1: "NOTICE: Do not push or tow this vehicle to start it. Under
some conditions this may damage the catalytic converter or other parts
of the vehicle. Also, this vehicle has a 12 volt battery... "
I just eye-balled the book again and found this:
Page 5-4: "Do not push or tow this vehicle to start it. This may
result in unusually high catalytic converter and exhaust system
temperatures which under extreme conditions may ignite interior
floor-covering material above the converter."
Without the injectors firing I don't know how that 'flood of fuel'
reaches the CAT. Any clues?
My bad. I should have remembered that the first rule in the age of
computers is to never read the book!! (:-o
'89 Hookercar '02 e-blu coupe
Here's a few reasons why push starts won't work. Normally, you push start a
car cause the battery's dead:
1. Electric fuel pump
2. Electric fuel injection
3. Electric ignition
4. Computer controlled everything
It won't work - experience talking..
I had a dead battery and tried to start a 1990 Honda in a parkade. figured I
would get it rolling cause the parkade had an incline. After some futile
pushing and jumping into a rolling car, I finally realized that I needed a
Jon, or somebody so disguised, wrote the following at or about 4/22/2006
Look closer. The horizontal arm is pointing TOWARDS the road as viewed
FROM the 'Vette owners home/driveway, etc. I've never seen one of those
"Century 21" 4x4 posts that was not set that way. If it was pointed
towards his house I might tend to agree.
Back to basics though... It's Minnesota, for cripes sake, they only
have about four months of the year without snow!<g>
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.