I can't, quick or otherwise. Now go back and read what I wrote about
*any* EGR design possibility. Some vehicles currently driving on the
road have both a vacuum-operated EGR valve and a position sensor. Now
read the message I was replying to, and imagine if one were to think
that, just because one had a P0404 code, then one could not have a
vacuum hose somewhere in their EGR system. (any make, any model,
theoretical or otherwise)
Damn, are you *that* thick? Read the message I responded to. The key
"word" is even in capitals. You did quote both messages.
Toyota MDT in MO
I never said I could, so why would there be a surprise at any cost? I
know the OP referred to a Chrysler product. I realize there is some
wisdom in maxpower's point regarding non-vacuum controlled EGR valves
and a P0404. Unfortunately, he (you?) is dimwitted enough to never
consider the big picture as evidenced by a great number of his posts.
His attack of claresnyder(sp) was pretty weak, but expected. Again,
read what I said and find any technical fault with it. You can't?
Again, no shit. Did you google that info? Are you sure of it from
real world experience? I'm *fairly* certain that it's true, enough to
not bother arguing (on Chryslers) but wouldn't rule it out
completely. Of course, I hardly touch Chrysler products but still
understand that generality off the top of my head. Don't own any,
have only a few in my circle, don't see them or care obout them. I
would be emabarrased for any Chrysler enthusiast/mechanic that
*didn't* know that. BTW, there were plenty of different control
systems introduced from joint ventures such as the Diamond Star badged
imports which could show up at a "Dodge dealer". Do you know if all
of them (including pre-1996 California quasi-OBDII models) were devoid
of vacuum EGR/lift sensors?
I'm certain your question was one of intentional sarcasm. Its
wittiness was multifaceted and gay.
Toyota MDT in MO
Technical fault? No. Irrelevant, considering the OP was talking about
a Chrysler product? Yes!
If you want to use irrelevant posts to take weak shots at somebody
'cause you don't like 'em, then knock yourself out. I was just
pointing out that Glenn was right, and your post didn't make any sense
in the context of this thread.
Correct. I wasn't attempting to be relevant. I can't do that 24/7
I already conceded that -however- knew it when posting. I've been
pissy on NG lately and it shows. Oh well, life goes on. FWIW, I feel
Glenn is a real asset to posters regarding Chrysler help. I have
deliberately scrolled right down to his replies for years, but take
issue with the manner that he (occasionally) jumps on people, in the
sense that he gets bent really easily. He doesn't always see all
sides to the issue, and rather goes into tunnel vision attack mode.
He's never responded to me, even in the beginning when my replies were
of the kinder, more collaborative nature. I guess that my posts,
both good and malevolent are blocked, ignored, don't
show on his reader, whatever... and life goes on.
Google wouldn't be my choice for auto info, especially trying to
determine which vehicles in the Chryco lineup, if any, ever came
equipped with the aforementioned combination.
I read all the post's and dont block any of them out. I have just as much
right to say what I want to say as the next person. I will NOT get into
Bullshit discussions that come out of what is said on here. I dont have time
for that. The fact is, the OP made it sound as if the dealer was supposed to
check his vehicle out for free. We dont get paid by the hour we get paid by
the work we do. Just because the OP was told his EGR valve was bad by
another dealer does not mean the dealer is going to replace it. The OP has
purchased a low line service contract that does not cover EGR valves
therefore if he wanted it checked out he would have had to pay for it. Most
people I find on here that cry do not tell the whole side of the story. You
would be surprised of how many e mails I get from Posters on here about
there issues. They dont tell the complete story that was acually done to the
car to try and fix it. A vin number tells alot about the history of a
vehicle and the work that has been done to try and correct a problem. I
forget who said it.... but the OP's vehicle has an electronic EGR valve.
Unless you acually get the scan tool out and run the monitor to check it,
which means driving the vehicle under a certain speed and a certian load you
can not test this device. Once again, it has no vacuum hose to it. So what I
said in my first post was merely making a point that the OP was crying NOT
FIXED when he did not want to pay to have it checked out after the
Independent shop blew him off to the dealer. I only work on Dodge and
Chrysler Products and that is what we were talking baout therefore I had no
reason to answer the question about other EGR valves on a different
Manufactures vehicle.Once again, i do this as a favor to those who have a
ligitmate question or problem. I spend alot of time researching and going
thru wire schematics to answer questions. I dont have time for the bullshit
that goes on such as this thread.
possibility. Some vehicles currently driving on the
Thanks for replying. Many dealer techs work on a wide variety of
vehicles which usually comes from their mass of trade-in resales. I
guess your shop is different or you have one specific guy to do that
work. Your dealer doesn't sell the Jeep line?
Toyota MDT in MO
We are Chrysler only, we do have 2 Jeep Techs because we due tons of work
on those vehicles, We are not able to get the Jeep franchise because a
dealer down the street has it. I have worked on Dodge for 20 years but got
out of that 7 years ago.
We have one technician that works on all used vehicles. He inspects and
does the repairs
Like I said - no model info so we are all guessing. Last Chrysler I
worked on was a '98. PO401 code - insufficient EGR flow.(had to go
PO404 means the sensor thinks the pintle(or whatever) is in the wrong
position for the requested flow, while PO401 means the A/F ratio does
not change in proper relation to the requested flow. (Insufficient EGR
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
I know what the codes means and how to diagnois them, You were saying that
"The least they could have done was check for a bad vacuum hose" I was just
point out there this vehicle has no vacumm hose and has to be diagnoised
with a scan tool. Ap0401 and a P0404 are 2 totally different faults
Exactly what vehicle are we talking about? Don't remember it being
And SOME vehicles use elecrit controls to vacuum operators, with
electrical feedback. Same codes can STILL be aused by bad vacuum
components. Mabee not on a Dodge?
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
I have 2 minivans, a 94 and 95 T&C with the 3.8L BOTH vans do this - set
the EGR code in the CEL, intermittently. I've swapped valves, replaced
taken the old ones apart. No problems, no cracked diaphram, selonoids work.
EGR system passes all the diagnostics in the FSM. Both vans pass NoX
with flying colors. This problem has been happening for years on both of
This is the FIRST time I've read in this forum any statement from anyone
claiming to be a dealership mechanic that this is a known problem with
a firmware update for the engine computer to fix it on certain vans.
So, are mine part of this known problem? If so, what is the TSB #?
What code? EGR Solenoid Circuit or EGR System failure?
You mention nothing about replacing the part with a new part? The tiny male
pins in the transducer solenoid are known to get water in them and corrode
or even break off and setting the Solenoid fault
I never said it was a know problem. The OP was crying on here about his
deal with the dealer and I said Since he wont give out year/make/model he
wont get help. I said there there was a reflash out on a particular year
van. There is no reflash out on yours.
I take that back, there is a reflash out that could pertain to your vehicle
if the fault code is for EGR system failure. It only pertains to setting a
fault where the ambient temp is below 40 degree F and that is the TSB that
was posted earlier.
It is the general EGR system failure code. And yes I did try a new valve in
of the vehicles. And no, the pins on the selonoids are fine. It could
bad FEMALE contacts in the selonoid plug - but to have both vehicles doing
I don't live in an area with a lot of corrosion (no salt on the roads, etc.)
we don't see corrosion issues on electrical. But, as for ambient temp being
below 40 - that one I don't know. I hadn't noticed. The fact that the
are flashable, though, that's useful. I'll have to get one of them done and
if it makes a difference.
It is very random. It will go for months without doing it then do it
in succession. The more common trigger appears to be crusing at around
for a long period of time - such as a half hour. Interestingly enough, if I
for the same period of time at 65Mph it usually -won't- do it. But, I've
do it 10 minutes after starting the van, and just doing 30Mph city driving.
I can do the test procedure in the FSM all day long to each van and the
EGR valve always checks out, whether the van is hot or cold.
Both vehicles behave the same way and both give the same error codes, and
have very low NoX emissions. We have state-run IM testing here and you can
vehicle through the test center for free any time you want. Both seem to
have done this
with the same regularity in both summer and winter. But, the coldest it
here during winter is about down to 28 degrees.
In other factoids, both engines have very different maintainence histories.
95 was bathed in oil, serviced by the dealer. The 94 was bathed in dirt,
serviced by Clive with an assortment of kitchen implements. (I bought both
used) The 94 seems to have been very happy with getting back on to a
oil change regimen, and better maintainence. The 94 has about 145K on it,
95 has about 120K on it.
I have an OTC Monitor 4000E with the engine computer connector and one of
these days if I get ambitious I keep thinking I'll set it up to record
events, and see
if I can catch the thing doing it. One obstacle to doing that, though, is
with the better weather, I'm riding the CB750 every day and haven't done
driving in the van.
On Fri, 18 May 2007 23:23:51 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
When i looked, that TSB only appllied to '95 models. Didn't see it for
the '94, but I could have missed it.
The fact that it's intermittent could have something to do with when
the PCM actually runs the EGR 'monitor'. It's under specific
conditions, so it may run at one speed (load) and not another. It does
run under light load, steady cruise conditions. The PCM compares short
term fuel trim without EGR to STFT with EGR. If there isn't enough of
a shift, the fault is set.
It could also be that they are right at the edge of failure. Sometimes
they'll fail and sometimes they won't. Partially blocked EGR tubes
and intake manifold passages could cause it.
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