Or people who are on the skinny end of the bell curve, and have long
term relationships with their cars.
Unless you happen to be the one unlucky bastard whose oil filter blows
apart on a cold morning, and/or you're expecting your engine to last
longer than 100K miles. I prefer to use "known good" filters to
minimize my risk.
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
There is no evidence that what you are spouting is anything more than a
superstition. It is not supported by eveidence. There are millions of
engines that don't have the problems your superstitious beliefs say they
should be having.
The obvious common thread in the vast majority of the anecdotes about
Frams is that the problems occurred in engines that were already in
terminal condition. It appears to me that it is at this point when the
owner can no longer deal with the reality of a failing engine that one
is most likely to turn to superstition and folklore for the answers.
Take the guy who insists that Fram oil filters are no good because he
hooked up a drill to the engine he just rebuilt and blew up the oil
filter. This guy obviously has serious mechanical problems. The engine
that he was speaking of comes equipped with both a pressure regulator
and a filter bypass in the engine. But instead of looking for the real
cause of his problems he is more than happy just join the gang of Fram
bashers and forget about reality.
Well your not minimizing your risk by avoiding Fram. Nor would you be
increasing your risk by using Fram oil filters. An oil filter is not
that complicated. It is a product like soap or cornflakes and we could
argue the merits of those products endlessly also. But there really
isn't enough meat to those arguments to be interesting at all, unless
you start throwing in some super natural beliefs.
To quote someone with whom you appear to have a lot in common,
You mean to say that a drill can spin an oil pump faster than a
running engine? What if the OPRV were found to be in good operating
condition? What if instead of a drill it was simply a cold start on a
cold day while the engine was filled with the factory-recommended
grade of motor oil? No, your mind is made up, no sense confusing you
You have yet to demonstrate that to my satisfaction, while there's
plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Or you simply make judgements based on construction materials and
techniques as well as in-service failure rates, in which case the Fram
comes out on the bottom of the pile.
Sure, common knowledge, in the same manner as
John Glenn being the first man to land on the moon,
Napoleon being defeated at the Battle of.Gettysburg
and Tom Sawyer as the author of Huckleberry Finn.
No, not at all. It's clear by observation that Frams use thinner cans
than other brands, and almost as clear that the internals are made of
arguably inferior materials, hence "common knowledge." There's also a
wealth of anecdotal evidence of several different failure modes that
occur apparently more often with Frams than with other brands.
If one has an engine that develops unusually high oil pressures, has an
"upside down" filter, or one just wants to get the best engine
protection, there's compelling arguments for not using Fram.
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
(for those who've forgotten posts from weeks past.. I blew up an Orange
Fram when priming (w/electric drill) a rebuilt early chev 283 with an
aftermarket "spin-on adapter")
I'm "the guy". I forget the brand of the adapter, but it was a respected
name brand item. I'd used the same exact ones before with no problem.
After blowing up the Fram filter, I put on a Hastings filter and topped
the oil back up.
The Hastings *didn't* blow up.
I'd say "Jim" is the clown.
I'm still trying to decide if he works for Fram or one of their
distributors; or if he's just an argumentative Fram fanboi.
If you were really interested in having a strong filter container on
that engine you would have stayed with the one that was designed for and
came with the engine.
Here is the problem I have with the common folklore that some people are
pretending is common knowledge. The folklore got its beginning with
people cutting open filters and analyzing the contents - something
similar to reading tea leaves in a cup. If you look at the big picture
the number of people who share this common set of beliefs about Fram
filters being junk is pretty small compared to the number of engines
that are using Fram oil filters without any incident. That is there are
a large number of people out in the world at large that apparently do
not buy into the so called common knowledge about Fram filters. The
group that does nurture this common folklore is small and the number of
Fram filters that this group uses is even smaller since many of them
claim to have used only one Fram filter in their whole life. Yet this
small group produces a rather astonishingly large number of all the
stories about Fram filters being the bogeyman. Of course the folklore
includes a ready explanation for this. This group is knowledgeable and
all the others are ignorant.
The Fram folklore stories seem to run along lines like this:
I modified the lubricating system on my engine and the filter blew up
I'm sure the fault was due to the Fram bogeyman.
I bought an old beater for $500 that has 250K miles. It has low oil
pressure. This must be the Fram bogeyman.
My engine has low oil pressure. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the
slick 50 i have been putting in it. it must be the Fram bogey man again.
And so on and so on.
I'm sorry but i don't buy that these are stories from knowledgeable
people. IMO these are stories from superstitious people.
Show me where there was *any* significant change in the small-block
Chevy V8 oiling system when GM changed the block casting to use spin-on
filters. That Fram should not have blown up.
If I remember correctly, GM used a similar adapter for a few months to
use up the "non spin-on" block still in the parts pipeline.
Well guess what I don't disagree with that statement although it is
possible GM modified the oil pressure regulator. I know that fram oil
filters don't blow up for all the people who install them on cars where
the owner hasn't modified the lubricating system and it is working
properly. So what conclusions does one draw from those facts put
That may be true but I suspect that a Fram filter never once blew up
when used on any of those.
That's demonstrably not true for *all* people. 80's aircooled VWs for
example, would develop very high pressures on cold startup (I've seen
them peg 100 PSI gauges) and they could and did occasionally pop Frams.
Of course, as always, don't let facts get in the way of your ranting.
It's kind of amusing watching you proudly demonstrate your ignorance and
prejudices on a worldwide forum for all to admire!
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
Yeah right. And of course you can point to complaints from VW that
All Fram filters conform to manufacturers burst pressure specs. I've
never seen a car makers burst pressure specification that is below 200
PSI and some of them are a lot higher.
You mean like facts that some engines have malfunctioning components
like pressure regulators?
Are you talking to yourself again?
Why don't you take your complaints to the FTC if you have shred of
proof to support them? I'll tell you why you don't because your stories
are fabricated from thin air. If you have even a scintilla of evidence
to back up your complaint the FTC will take you very seriously.
They burst for the same reason other filters burst. The engine develops
considerably more oil pressure than the manufacture's oil filter
pressure specification calls for. If you have any proof at all that Fram
filters do not meet manufacturers specifications and burst at a lower
pressure that would be one thing. But you don't have any proof. You just
have a stream of bullshit.
Your talking bullshit.
I have no problem with that, But when you repeatedly and insistently
attempt to spread unsubstantiated rumors don't be surprised that that
someone calls you full of shit.
But if I have a product, any product, and it fails, and a second one
fails or I hear of someone else who has the same problem I'm not going
to go out and blindly buy another just because the manufacturer claims
they are all made to the design specifications. It failed.
And I'm going to tell everyone who asks, or will listen. It's human nature.
There are other products out there that do the same/better/worse job but
they haven't failed on me.
It's not bulls*t it's commercial realty
If what you say were true you could have Fram put out business. But you
don't have a shred of evidence. It's just all made up stories. Take a
fram filter to the FTC and prove it doesn't meet design specs and they
will shut them down. But can't prove a damn thing because its all hot
Yes it is the nature of ignorant and superstitious humans.
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