About 2008 Dodge Avenger SE

Thats true but the problems of a bunch of HP and Torque are easier to solve in a RWD car.

Ok, this is a performace inhibitor, at least in some cases, but it does not address the question as to why it can not be called a sports cars. There are performace inhibitors with RWDs also but you didn't mention any of them, why?

And you know this how???? Oh, that's right, you don't.

Funny, I thought that I said this as a reason for so few standard shifts being found on the lots. Thanks for backing up my point.

LOL, yea Miles, that's a good reason for someone to buy a car that they probably don't know how to drive.

Once again, you prove your lack of knowledge. While this ,ay be one reason, the more likely one is that the standard shift that comes with the bargin basement model is not strong enough to deal with the increased weight and HP of the upgraded models. This IS the reason that you could not get the 1500 series Ram with a 5 speed and the 360.

You act as if there is no demand at all for standard shifts but said yourself that you searched for one multiple times. The demand is there and it is not as great as it is for the automatics but it is not non-existant either. There is a much greater chance of converting someone wanting a standard to an automatic then it is to convert someone wanting an automatic over to a standard shift so they stock mostely automatics.

Sorry, but no. Sticks cost less and that equates to lower profits. Why would you make it easier to lose money? Since just about all of the dealers tend to stock the more expensive options, there is no motivation to stock the cheeper ones. If people really want one of those, they can order it.

That is because that is EXACTLY how it works. While there is a higher demand for automatics, especially in the granny cars, the demand is not 100% for them and yet, Dodge makes it damn hard to get anything but.... Perhaps that is why they are # 4 or is it #5 now.

Dealers stock what they can move the easiest and sometimes, that means telling the customer that is all that they can get or all they can get today and it is something that they can live with.

Honestly couldn't tell you. Like I said before, I personally don't care for these type of cars, (EVO, SRT4, etc.) but I also don't feel that because they have more than 2 doors and are FWD that they can't be classed as a sports car.

Same thing applies to a FWD miles. The right people with the right knowledge and abilities can correct a lot of the issues inherant to them. Problem I see here is that there are to damn many closed minded and biased old bastards that still think we should be driving hot rodded lead sleds!

miles wrote in news:rPGei.626576$2Q1.452657 @newsfe16.lga:

Dunno - is it a stick? ;)

azwiley1 wrote in news:1182486451.758609.143800 @j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

Start talking to a DB9 owner (or even a Carrera owner) about "FWD sports cars" and note the reaction.

Because overall a RWD performance car will out handle and out perform a FWD all other things being equal. Currently there just isn't a way to make a FWD high powered performance car work. The only FWD performance cars I know of are all low end (SRT4 etc.) cars where people aren't very picky.

Not true at all. The Caliber's 5 speed is the same transmission found in the older Stratus which had a V6 with the 5 speed and is much heavier. The CVT's are what can't handle high torque very well.

Never said it was non-existant. I said the reason for dealers having so few is because of very low demand for them. It's a select group that wants manuals and not an easy sale.

Like I said. It's market demand. Too few people looking for manuals.

Lower end base model cars do not sell anywheres near at the rate of better equipped cars. Look at the Calibers. They are Dodges low end entry level car. Yet the base model SE's will sit on the lot and be passed up for higher end SXT's and R/T's. You're way off base thinking that dealers stock what they want to sell and people just buy whats available!! Sorry Tom, dealers stock what people want to buy, not the other way around.

No Tom, it most certainly is NOT. Dealers stock what people want. They don't shove what they want to sell onto the consumer. It does not work that way. Good thing you're not in sales!!

Well I don't know if I'd call it a sports car or not but I bought a brand new 93 Ford Probe 2 dr with a 5 speed manual back in 93. That car drove and handled very well. I remember taking 90 degree turns in that car at over 50mph and not once did the tires lose traction. I took it out on our police driving track and it handled better than the squad car I drove every day. I called it my "go kart on steroids." To me it was so fun to drive mainly because of the 5 speed manual. I wouldn't have had nearly as much fun with an auto. And I still feel that way today with any similar car I drive. I wouldn't even look at the new Avenger now since a manual isn't available. Too bad for me and Dodge too since other people that feel like I do won't buy one.

Bob

Only if it had a 5 speed manual in it.

Bob

As long as they have heated seats!!

Bob

Okay! The Z06 was a 6speed and after a few trips spending time in stop and go traffic for a hour it was getting old. Now with the automatic in the Charger I have the option of doing it myself or letting the trans do it's thing.

Now that I think about it, one trip to FL I never used cruise control until SC. Shifting constantly for about 18 hours. It sucked.

Roy