Gulf Coast part 2

Let's try to keep the politics out of this question. Let's make it yes or no!!

Do you feel the response was late??? YES OR NO!!

Reply to
Roy
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At the risk of being labeled a "leftie" ... HELL YES!

Craig C.

Reply to
craig

Not having read the other thread yet, yes it took too long for help to arrive. But in all fairness, did they have to let the water go down before they could get much in??? Also, if what I read was correct, with idiots taking pot shots at the 'copters that were trying to take people out, I'd say f*ck-em and let them swim.

Denny

Reply to
Denny

The water hasn't dropped that much. Helicoptors and the trucks that showed today.

I agree. But do you let 60,000 suffer because of 20? No you put some folks in the air and light them the f*ck up. But if you don't have the assets then you get what happened. Nothing.

Roy

Reply to
Roy

And if the birds were armed and returned fire, could you imagine the crying and whining that would happen?? It's a no-win situation. I'd have to let them soak a little while longer till they calmed down. In every situation it's always a few idiots that ruin it for the many.

Denny

Reply to
Denny

Yes, hell yes.

BDK

Reply to
BDK

It's kind of hard to drive in 20 feet of water. I think the response is as fast as could be expected.

beekeep

Reply to
beekeep

Agreed. What about planes, helicopters and boats?

Craig C.

Reply to
craig

Planes? Not very useful... where ya gonna drop stuff? In the water? Boats? Can't navigate through the city with anything bigger than a rowboat, due to all the debris in the streets. Helicopters? They were there since Tuesday... the CG was plucking people off of rooftops pretty-much non-stop. If you mean choppers like the Blackhawks, Chinooks, Super Stallions, etc.... those came with the military, which has already been discussed as to why they weren't there earlier.

Reply to
Tom Lawrence

Absolutely. We have sent aid to other countries faster than this.

Reply to
TBone

I think NO followed their Disaster Plan, which was probably a one-page document, and had little to no disaster resistant infrastructure.

Reply to
FMB

Name one time it happened faster than this. Simple time line: Day 1, Tuesday) Assessment of situation and needs. Day 2, Wednesday) Logistical planning and gathering of supplies and personnel Day 3, Thursday) Deployment to region Day 4, Friday) Operation commences

Three days to get on scene and operational. Not bad.

Reply to
Max Dodge

Bzzzz ... sorry Max.

Monday evening Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama called for help. Even if they hadn't, we should have been better prepared at the federal level. Not one single person at FEMA doubted that this was going to be a national disasater, 24 hours BEFORE it happened.

It does not take 24 hours to assess the situation. Less than 4 hours. I agree on 24 hours for gathering of supplies. Now we're at approximately 30 hours.

24 hours for deployment? Are they having a deployment party too? Much of the equipment and supplies came from right here in good ole Texas. Doesn't take 24 hours to get to NO, even when it's under water. I say 12 hours.

That's 42 hours ... let's round up to 48. At the latest ... Thursday morning. That's if you do EVERYTHING by road.

It amazes me that ANYONE can defend the response time. If Clinton were still in office and he had dragged his ass like this, you'd be on fire.

Craig C.

Craig C.

Reply to
craig

LOL, most of this should have happened BEFORE MONDAY. As you said in the fuel price thread, NOWA had a pretty good idea where and how strong it was going to be when is made land fall. The fact that they had the evacuation showed that they knew what was possible so they could have made many accurate assumptions as to what was going to be needed prior to the storm hitting. the real time line should have been:

Day 1, Saturday - Assessment and assumption of probable needs. Day 2, Sunday - Logistical planning and gathering of supplies and personnel based on above. Day 3, Monday - Reassess situation and needs. Begin initial deployment Day 4, Tuesday - Full deployment to region with what is needed or available based on prior assessment while gathering any additional supplies and personnel that may also be needed. Begin initial operations. Day 5, Wednesday - Operation fully commences!

LOL, you are already 3 days late.

Yes it was because many of your steps should have been done BEFORE the storm even hit. By Tuesday, they should have been ready to roll with something.

Reply to
TBone

The entire city is not under water. Western amd Northwestern NO are "dry". So, yes, planes could drop supplies there. Large boats cannot navigate through the city, but they can supply the coastline to the west of NO and take in supplies on smaller boats. Not perfect, but better than NOTHING, which is what they got.

And ... are you telling me that a handful of helicopters is the best we can do? I read that less than 50 helicopters were involved.

I tried to find some research I did in college on earthquakes, to no avail. However, in Cali, I can't think of a single major earthquake that went more than 2 days without an outpooring of aid from various state and federal agencies. You might make the argument that the areas were not under water, but the challenges were just as great. Roads and bridges out, structures collapsing, no electricity ...

Craig C.

Reply to
craig

Yeah, you are sorry, thats a fact.

Better prepared for what? I assume you have the crystal ball that shows what will be needed in the future, so tell us ALL about it.

They still don't know numbers of people stranded in NO, but you expect it to happen in 4 hours.

Ok, I figure at least 36, but lets go with yours.....

Yeah, 24 hours. 8 hours for notice to get rested personnel, 8-16 for preparation, especially when moving from one region to the other, not across the street, ya know.

We're at 52 if we cut my estimate by a third, which is unrealistic, but I'll do it for you.

Nope, takes about 3-5 travelling at convoy speeds. Add in time to assemble convoy, and we're at 8-10.

Total, 60-62hours.

Yeah, and when the road is blocked, or doesn't exist...... lets add on 4 hours for that.

Total, 64-66 hours.

My total comes up 6 hours short of 72 hours... three days. And thats assuming all goes perfectly. But even so, the USCG and many military helos were already on scene pulling people from rooftops, which means they were NOT dropping food and water. And all you can do is complain.

LOL, you have no clue. You are pushing a political agenda, nothing more, nothing less.

Reply to
Max Dodge

No, I said NOAA had a clue. I don't know who NOWA is. As to accurate predictions, your flawed assumption fails to take into account their flawed assumptions about their levees, and the biggest variable, number of people trapped in a disaster that was believed to have been avoided.

Based on what? Storm size?

Gathered where? In the city?

During the storm?

Wow, FIVE days instead of the three I claimed. Brilliantly proving that three days is GREAT response time. You are aware that USCG and military helos were on scene by Tuesday, right?

You are aware that USCG and military helos were on scene by Tuesday, right?

Reply to
Max Dodge

Yep, easy to blame Bush. Especially easy for the NO Mayor to give the TV vampires nice curse-laden sound bites.

But the truth is at this URL:

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Incompetence begins at home.

Reply to
Langerhans

On buildings? You do realize that planes cannot accurately drop supplies, right? There are no "smart palates".

What way is there to get from the "coastline" facilities, if any, to the city? Logistics of transport from any drop zone is part of the problem that takes time.

How many do you want? 50 Helos means 150 men on crew, and up to 500 ground crew. Thats 650 crew, without talking about landing zones, fuel, co-ordination for flight operations, etc. The USCG only has 211 Helos total, with 3-5 (guesstimate from facts culled from the USCG 8th division websites) from each of four air stations in the 8th Division's territory. Wow, a full

10% of the USCG helos were on duty and flying, if possible. Wanna bet others came in from outside the 8th Division's area? If ALL those 50 were USCG, thats 25% of a NATIONAL force. THAT is a one hell of a mobilization.

Well, considering the USCG was flying within a day of the storm passing, this disaster response falls within your criteria. Given that anyone who has actually been in the area claims its worse than anything they've seen, adding an extra day to your two quoted above isn't out of reason.

Reply to
Max Dodge

Gosh, Max, you really know how to hurt a guy.

Well, let me spell it out for you. SUNDAY, impact with NO was 100% for sure. 175 mph winds. No crystal ball needed. Just someone to get their head out of their ass long enough to realize that some serious shit was about to happen.

I won't comment on your timeline ... I don't agree. I could have driven to NO 6 times with supplies in the time it took you to "assess" the situation.

Okay, Max, if that helps you sleep. Speaking of sleep, I'm going to go catch a few Z's. Tomorrow, I'm actually doing something about it.

Americans deserve the best our government and military can offer in times of crises. Republican president or Democrat ... I expect the same. I guess you could call that an "agenda".

Craig C.

Reply to
craig

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