Gulf Coast part 2

LOL, yea, they set a BS timeline like you did and then they can claim how they are ahead of it.

You are correct and much of this planning should have occured BEFORE the storm. Any planning after it should only be dealing with the unexpected.

Yea, probably because your governor knows now to begin planning and gathering supplies when the storm is expected, not after it hits so your local people have what they need to do their jobs. I don't care how much your local people know, it they don't have what they need, they can do nothing.

Complete BULLSHIT!!!!

With NOTHING.

And should have been there within hours.

Simple answer, plan ahead and be prepared next time. Hurricanes are not surprise events like an earthquake or a tornado.

Well, the way they say, the flooding in NO was unexpected. Obviously that is a major disruption to plans, if in fact they were following any.

Actually it was a local senator, by the name of Dan Flood (no, I'm not joking) that had a major part in getting state and fed funding to build a floodwall. Our Governor has had very little to do with our plans, and the one we have now probably would rather talk football than govern. I will say this in Rendells favor, he has said he will find state funding to erect a floodwall at the next town up if the feds won't fund it.

You do realize the NG is made up from people who LIVE in the affected area? Beyond that, it'll take a day to get other state NG activated.

But according to another thread, you claim the path is unpredictable..... Whatever....

Ya mean ya can't strap a Garmin hand-held GPS onto one, and turn it into a JDAP (Joint Direct Assistance Pallet)? :)

That would be through the swamps...

And they have plenty of swamp boats built just for that purpose.

Who's "they"? You know this for a fact? You know they weren't isolated, or even destroyed, by the storm?

Ya know, Tom... you seem to have all this figured out. Why the hell aren't you down there telling everyone what they should be doing? Bourbon Street could have been rocking again tonight if you were in charge...

One may note that the full brunt of the hurricane missed NO and hit Mississippi instead......a little observation clearly shows largely intact buildings albeit quite wet. The day following the storm everyone including the media and NO local politicians were soundly congratulating themselves for their wonderful pre storm preparations including the soon to be ill fated packed stadium. There was as well lots of bragging about pre storm preparation between the locals and the FEDs. And a massive sigh of relief that the storm had dropped from CAT5 to Cat4 upon hitting landfall and had veered away from heavily populated NO.

Then as the levy fell the initial hopeful expectation was to fix it and stop the flow.....as night fall came on the second day it became apparent that such a outcome was nearly impossible. By the third day the city was largely flooded.

Of greater note with a nearly 100 mile wide swath of massive destruction through Mississippi manpower, resources and rescue was rightly focused where the storm actually hit.......

One might even surmise that NO with a reasonably slow rising(48hr) flood and a city supposedly already "emptied" would be largely a long term repair/ cleanup and not a budding emergency. One might also surmise that the locals(common sense) would have propositioned reasonable food, water, fuel and portable restrooms before filling the stadium and convention center......

Timelines and realities on the ground may wreck a good rant but nonetheless they exist. A large scale emergency mobilization costs literally billions of dollars and disrupts thousand of lives (reserves and volunteers) its just not something that can be done because something might happen.....at any given time something "might happen" virtually anywhere, preparation before the fact is by necessity general and non specific....i.e. at this point Mississippi and NO have entirely different needs including rescue, manpower and equipment requirements. Realistically in this case a "flood specific response" on a national level begins 2-3 days after the initial hurricane.....Not to mention logistics of distance add considerable transport time. Requirements for initial local information about transportation assets remaining or available (airports, roads and rail) is needed as well.

No argument there......however an expectation based on reality is not a bad thing. Rod

Gawd my side hurts........quit now.........

Denny

Well said, Rod.... but .... sadly reality is not the strong suit of some in the group.... much easier to rant about something of which you know little....

Mike

And YOU know that every one of them were???

Is this the best that you can do Tom? Do you think that the best job possible has been done so far? You make the claim that there are swamps in the way but they have always been there and are a way of life for the people that live near them and they have equipment to deal with it. I never said that I knew everything or had all of the answers but compared to the way the situation is currently being handled, I probably could do a better job, at least in the beginning.

Ummm... Tom? Oh great on-scene commander (the one who could to a better job)? The Astrodome is in Houston. You might have wanted to locate your personnel and supplies in the Superdome, which is within the N.O. city limits.

Yeah, I know... details....

Yeah - screw the people stranded on their rooftops with burning buildings around them... they should have been dropping supplies instead ("Oh, shit! Hey - look out for that falling... ." "Whoops")

Yea, I got the name wrong, get over it but even the Astrodome (less than 3 hours by helo) would be better than where they had them which was knowwhere at all. If all you can do is bash me on a wrong name, then your arguments are getting weak indeed.

Helicopters can perform precision drops if they actually have something to drop, you do know that, right???? As for the people stranded on their roofs, they can be rescued by small boats and the helicopters between supply drops. I guess that you would rather screw the masses that took the trouble and made the effort to help themselves to get to where they were told to go without any food or water supplied to them to help the idiots that decided to stick it out in their homes against the mandatory evacuation orders. Yea, that makes much more sense, asshole.

Fuck you Mike. He should have returned to the White House for appearance sake alone. If he could do everything from his Texas home, there would be no need for the White House at all now would there. He was elected by the people to lead this country and when it is about to be ravaged by this type of storm, he should be back at his post. Despite modern communications, it is not now or ever will be as good as being were he is needed talking face to face with the people that he needs to talk to and giving the apperance to the country that he cares and things will get done, not that he will get there when he has the chance after his vactaion.

That is because it is impossible to do in a "concrete" way and you know that.

They are part of the military, their complete safety is not the issue and it takes little time to shift or deploy to a different location once assembled.

Once again, they are in the military and there families have to come second and as I have said before and you ignored, their families should have been evacuated prior to the storm.

You are correct and larger aircraft should have been made available. As for faster responce, even the earthquake in CA had massive movement within 2 days, not close to 5 like now.

It is not useless, it is in transit with supplies.

assembling.

It does not matter, once assembled, deployment happens MUCH faster.

They are in the military, they gave up that type of choice when they joined and their families should have been evacuated prior to the storm hitting the area.

And what exactly are thes special circumstances and lets see some time lines on how much longet these pre-flight checks will take.

And that is where the federal gov screwed up not making sure that these larger aircraft were available and in the area in case they were needed.

It is public apperance pinhead. And despite the communications network, more can still be done in person. As for chaos in his support system, LOL, you are really reaching now.

And this is where the President or the fed screwed up. He should have made sure that this type of equipment was available should the USCG need it and made sure it was done before the storm made landfall. The problem is that it's all about the money anymore. We can spends billions on a useless war but when it comes to protecting and helping the people at home....

"f*ck you mike"? yeah, i sure don't understand why no one around here likes you.

as for the response to the katrina, it was terrible. we thought that we had our planning down but this really shows how much work we have to do. why you blame bush for that is beyond me though. the local, state and federal response isn't lead by bush, but rather by americans who are supposed to have their shit together. i suspect this will be a wake up call and that there will be some changes. look at beekeeps video. is it bush's fault that two cops where in that walmart looting? no, bush isn't at fault here you idiot. it was other peoples jobs to get this done, not bush. now, what i expect bush to do is to kick a whole of ass, fire some people and get some people in there that can get the job done.

The appearance of WHAT?

How perceptive of you. Except for the need to have an offical residence and headquarters for our president, technology has made one helluva difference since the White House was rebuilt in 1814 or so.

Back at what post? You do realize that he has all information brought to him personally. He doesn't just sit and watch special TV's.

Given that you understand his physical location is one of appearances only, maybe its time for you to shut the hell up and realize he cannot be everywhere at once. Maybe its time you realized that no matter what party he belongs to, a president cannot be more than a man, who needs a vacation, time at home, and LOTS of people and services to bring info to him no matter where he is.

EVEN I was making fun of his overflight of the affected area, but the FACT is, he was on the ground ASAP given the security risks.

Just as I expected... invective instead of clear headed thought.... you are hopeless.....

Mike

He should have returned to the White House for appearance

Mr. President, we have consulted with our industry experts, and the conclusion for more effective communication in the future between the government and the affected citizens is, "Fuck you, Mike". We'll have our speech-writers get on this ASAP. Thank you, Mr. President.

you ignorant ass

Bush could do NOTHING until help was requested by the New Orleans Mayor (the one who let over 300 school busses sit unused and then screamed 'It be racism' that the Feds didn't help evac the people; or the Governor of Louisiana, who refused to admit that they were overwhelmed

The apperance of giving a damn.

Yes it has but if you really think that it is 100% as effective as him being there, then you really are a fool.

How do you know that? The answer is that you don't and this is where the appearance thing comes in. For all I or you know, he could have been out fishing while this stuff was going on. I am not saying that he was, but there is that appearance thing again.

BULLSHIT!!!!! While he is president, his home IS THE WHITE HOUSE. He is the leader of the most powerful country in the world and much is expected of him. If he cannot handle it, he should resign. Funny how you expect more of Clinton though.

He did not need to be at the disaster site and I have no problem with the amount of time he took to get THERE. He should have been at the White House prior to the storm landfall for appearance sake alone and he didn't do it. BTW, how did this get to be me attacking Bush anyway. I don't blame Bush for the complete fuckup that this effort has become. Oh, I see, you know as well that this was a disaster and are trying to change the subject rather than agree that this could have and should have been done MUCH better than it was.