When Ford CEO Alan Mulally was reviewing the company's 2008 product
line last September...he was told that Ford loses close to $3,000 every
time a customer buys a Focus compact http://doiop.com/Focus - "Why
haven't you figured out a way to make a profit?" he asked. Executives
explained that Ford needed the high sales volume to maintain the
company's CAFE, or corporate average fuel economy, rating and that the
plant that makes the car is a high-cost UAW factory in Michigan.
"That's not what I asked," he shot back. "I want to know why no one
figured out a way to build this car at a profit, whether it has to be
built in Michigan or China or India, if that's what it takes." Nobody
had a good answer.
=========Business Week article: http://doiop.com/b0a240
The only Focus competitors built in the US are the Civic, Corolla, and
Sentra. For whatever reason, those all sell for more than a Focus. Only the
Civic is a better car than the Focus (at least in my opinion) and it sells
for a lot more. The Corolla is a very old design and a significant
percentage are still manufactured in Japan. I can't understand why anyone
would buy a Corolla or a Sentra in preference to a Focus.
Maybe because the Corolla gets much better fuel economy? Source:
www.fueleconomy.gov | "side by side" | "mileage estimates from drivers like
you." Maybe because the Corolla has better resale value? Maybe because the
Corolla doesn't fall apart when the warranty ends?
I can understand these reasons.
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Who says Focus is not reliable? CR rates it as average. Admittedly
they rate the Corolla better, but how significant is the difference -
probably less than 1 problems every 2 years. The Corolla is rated
about 3 mpg bettter, less than 10%, by the EPA, but it is also
smaller. In CU testing, the overall fuel economy for the Corolla was
29, for the Focus 28 - essentially no real world difference. Resale
value is a fickle thing, particularly if you keep the car until it is
worn out. Up front, you will pay $2K to $3K more for the smaller
Corolla. Now maybe you will recover that due to fuel savings and
increased resale value, or maybe you won't. But if that is your main
concern, then the Civic is clearly a better choice. Comparable gas
mileage and better resale value and it isn't a hold over design from
when dinosaurs ruled the earth. In my opinion, the Corolla, is
cramped, plain, dull, and boring. Anyone who is buying a Corolla would
be far better off buying a 1 or 2 year old used Focus. That way you
get the "advantage" of all that initial high depreciation and get a
better car besides. If you don't mind "cramped" then the Yaris or
Honda Fit are better choices.
So, I looked at Edmunds and pretty much every 2002 Focus owner complained
that they needed new rotors by 30K miles. Let's see, that's $250-$400 for
the work and the aggravation of waiting around for Insty-Brakes to do the
job? Yeah, I gott get me some of that. My Toyotas are going well over 60K
miles on the first set of pads (yes, even my big, heavy Sienna, which does a
lot of around-town duty with my wife, who is very hard on brakes) and the
rotors are lasting 100K and more.
There's a reason I directed you to www.fueleconomy.gov. Never mind the EPA
estimates, compare actual mileage reports from 2006 Corolla and Focus
owners; the Corolla is beating the Focus by 7 or so mpg in the real world,
more like 20-25% than 10%.
The current Corolla was introduced in 2001 or so. The 2008 will be all-new.
That's a long run for a Toyota but it's nothing like the way GM and Ford
dragged out the Cavalier or Crown Vic. When's that Focus to be made over?
Get real. The trashy resale value of the Focus tells you that the judgement
of the market is that the Coroll is the better car.
"Cramped?" Are you used to driving a motor home? Go check Edmunds' reviews
of the Yaris; "cramped" is not a term Yaris owners use. "Value" comes up
pretty often, though.
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Not if you read the Edmunds User Review for the Focus - plenty of
people there claiming as good or better mileage than the EPA numbers.
And BigMacs are the greatest hamburger in the world.
Not even Toyota Reports, errr...I mean Consumer Reports recommends the
"The Toyota Yaris offers excellent fuel economy and reliability, but
overall it trails better economy cars. The ride is compliant and
routine handling is reasonably responsive, but handling gets sloppy
and hard to control at its limits. Stops are very long without the
optional ABS. Acceleration is adequate, but engine and road noise
result in a loud cabin. The compromised driving position and the
center-mounted gauges are frustrations. Although the starting price is
enticingly low, a well-equipped Yaris sedan can easily top $15,000.
First-year reliability is excellent, but the Yaris scored too low in
our testing to be recommended."
In fact, of all the Toyotas CR has tested, only the Yaris and FJ
Cruiser don't get the recommended rating. Even the Focus is
recommended. However, owners (even CR readers who own them) seem to
love them. I only sat in one and thought it was a POS, and over priced
too. Do you really think it is better than a Honda Fit - a CR highly
recommended model? 75% of the CR reader who rated the Fit gave it 5
stars but then but 6 of the 22 people who rate the Ford Focus gave it
5 stars too. Only two CR readers had anything bad to say about the
2006 Focus, and one of those only drove a rental Focus.
Does that make them equivalent dinosaurs?
Does the Focus have variable valve timing? The Corolla has - and has had
for quite some time. I'd think twice before suggesting that it's antiquated
in comparison to other cars currently on the market.
There's a resale market for Big Macs?
Gee, if there's a bias towards Toyota, as you imply, why didn't Consumer
reports recommend Toyotas 100%? That is to say, "Grow up."
I read CR. I have no idea what their "compromised driving position" refers
to but owner reports on Edmunds suggest that their drivers are perfectly
happy with the driving position. I've heard others praise the
center-mounted gauges. CR may not like them but then perhaps it takes a
while to get used to and appreciate (owners' reports also suggest this).
I don't recall saying it was necessarily better than a Fit. I also didn't
necessarily say it was "better" than a Focus. You said, on 5/30 at about
6:00pm, you couldn't "understand why anyone would buy a Corolla" over a
Focus. I simply gave you three reasons, all of which ARE supported by CR -
and Edmunds and others. I suppose I could have simply been nice and said,
the Corolla "offers better reliability," rather than "doesn't fall apart
when the warranty ends" but I'm only human and my personal ownership
experience with Ford taught me that they are, indeed, execrable and that no
one at Ford from the CEO right on down to the guy that empties the waste oil
drum at the dealership gives the tiniest shit whether or not you are happy
with your car or even whether or not you buy another Ford.
Anyway, then you suggested the Yaris is "cramped" and I referred you to
sources which suggest this is not the case. One Yaris owner report comes
from someone who is 6'5".
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Get real they were not reason they were questions asked and the answers it
not what you may think. NO cars today, fall apart when the warranty ends.
If some do it is because they have 100K warranties. What he call the
Corolla slightly better fuel economy is because it has a lot small engine,
500 CC. Even the bigger Ford 200 CC engine get better mileage than the 1.8L
Toyotas so called better retail value is a result of it much high drive home
price, than anything else. If a three year old Focus is worth $3,000 less
than a Corolla it is because the Corolla cost $5,000 more to drive home when
new. The Focus actually returns a higher percentage of the new car price,
than does a Corolla. More importantly the Toyota dealer will not give YOU
much of that so called higher resale value when you trade your Corolla. One
will get more for ones trade at a Ford dealer. Toyota dealer typically
offers than wholesale on all trades.
500 cc? That is 0.5 liter or about 30 cu in. That is about 1/4 the size
of the engine in the old Ford Contour (the 4 cyl engine, not the V6).
How is 200 cc (0.2 liter) bigger than the 1.8 liter Corolla engine?
The Ford Focus with a 2.0 liter engine (perhaps that is what you meant)
gets 27 mpg city / 37 mpg highway (with the 5-sp manual) while the
Toyota Corolla with the 1.8 liter engine gets 30 mpg city, 38 highway.
So the Toyota does better. Oh, and if you get the 5-sp manual in the
Toyota, it gets 32 city/41 highway.
The Corolla has about 10 fewer HP (136 vs 126) and 11 fewer ft lb (133
The Honda Civic has nearly the same size engine as the Toyota (1794 vs
1799 cc), but gets 140 hp and has 128 ft-lb of torque. And it gets
better mileage than the Ford (30/38 with the manual).
All numbers were for the 2007 models. And were obtained at the Ford
website (using the model comparison feature).
You're comparing apples to oranges. There is more to value than a less
powerful engine (the Ford's compared to the Honda's) and worse fuel
efficiency (the Ford's).
The original retail price was about $10,000 (invoice price + destination
was $13,000 - $3000 (estimated) discounts) for a Ford Focus. The Toyota
was Corolla $13,500 (MRSP). So that is a difference of $3,500 in price.
The Ford is now worth $7900 (retail) and the Toyota is worth $11,325
(retail). The Ford held 79% of its value while the Toyota held 83% of
Now, if you go to trade it in, the Toyota is worth $9625 (71% of it
retail price) vs. %6575 for the Ford (66% of its retail price).
So, whether you sell the used car at retail or at trade in value, the
Toyota retains more of its value than the Ford, assuming one paid MSRP
for the Toyota, but got about a $3000 discount on the Ford.
> The Focus actually returns a higher percentage of the new car price,
Only if Ford's 79% is more than Toyota's 83% (retail) or if Ford's 66%
is more than Toyota's 71%.
All values are from NADA, using 07071 as the ZIP, 36,000 mi on the trade
in and no options for either vehicle.
Well, you claimed that NADA reflects what the dealers actually pay for
the cars. Anyway, no one is forcing one to sell the car to the Toyota
dealer or buy another Toyota. Why would one want to do that? ;-)
Little slow again today? What is the difference between a 2300 CC engine
and a 1800 CC engine?
I guess you do not get shop for new cars too often, right. What part of
"drive home price" do you not understand? LOL
You said: "What he call [sic] the Corolla slightly better fuel economy
is because it has a lot small engine, 500 CC."
That means that it (presumably the Corolla) has a 500 cc engine, not
that the difference between the two engines is not 500 cc. If you said
that the "is because it has a lot smaller engine, by 500 cc", then it
would have been clear what you meant. I am sorry for any confusion.
I understand drive home price well.
Again, I used the numbers from NADA, which you claim is the only source
that uses numbers directly from the dealers (although it does reflect
the selling price of new cars, just used cars).
Perhaps you can tell me what a more accurate selling price for a 2004
Ford Focus was in 2003 or 2004.
Again, you are unable to back your claims.
You don't need to apologize for being confused, we are accustomed to you
being confused. Obviously you do not understand the difference between the
selling price and the drive home price. Educate yourself, for a change, on
the subject before you choose to reply, WBMA. Go get a selling price on ANY
car, then try driving it home for that price.
One can get the exact same car, for the exact same selling price, on the
exact same car with the exact same MSRP, from two different dealerships, yet
the drive home price can be hundreds, or even thousand of dollars more on
one than the other.
When I was in retail we often offered a selling price that was $2,000 below
our cost when the buyer had as late model trade. We simply deducted $3,000
for the trade price when presenting the drive home price. On our foreign
brands we always had a $2,499 'smoke and mirrors package' that cost us $150,
on every car on the lot. We could 'discount' the selling price $2,300 and
still sell the vehicle over MSRP. If the customer insisted on more for the
trade we simply our 'fees' increased the retention on the interest rate. It
is known in the business as never reducing the gross.
A new car Sales Managers goal is to have a little capital tied up in a deal
as possible, since rarely will there be enough cash received, to pay the
manufacture for the that new car after the sale. I may take the sale of two
or more of the resulting trades, before the dealerships cash flow becomes
positive, after the original sale.
Many? Define that. The overall rating by owners was 8.7, not great,
but not awful either (the FABULOS Corolla got a monstorouly higher
rating of 9.0). I didn't see a single review where anyone reported it
as "an unreliable piece of crap." I did not rear all the Edmunds'
reviews, but I looked for the lowest rating a I could find. At CR
Online 17 of 22 reviewers gave the Focus 5 Stars (highest rating).
Here are a few of the o"other" comments from Edmunds:
"Just got the Ford Focus SE 5 door. So far I like it. The gas millage
is great. The Focus seems to handle very well. "
"So far I'm getting about 34 to 35 mpg on standard 5-speed."
"I love my Ford Focus!"
"Just got this car in the past few days as a replacement for another
vehicle. I have found that this cars basic features are better than
the same type cars in its class and I have no problems with this car
so far. I did a great deal of research on this car and liked the MPG
and the way it handles on the road. I have the added features of
cruise control and side air bags that my last 2007 vehicle did not
have plus that same gas savings even with the added horse power. Not
as costly as a Toyota in the same class and is a better car than the
2007 Yaris that I had to replace. I would highly recommend this car
for anyone looking for a fun way to get from here to there with good
"Great car! Comfortable, roomy, spirited and very reasonably priced."
"MPG verses room. 30+ mpg no matter how I drive it. Top mpg has been
37 so far with a 4 speed automatic."
Even the people that gave it a bad rating, talked about how well it
drove. The worst compalint I saw was some one complaining about a
squeak the dealer had not fixed yet.
Best Corolla - 1.8L, Man(5), Regular - 28/37
Best Focus - 2L, Man (5) Regular - 24/33
At the EPA site, for the Focus, the number of actual users reporting
mileage on any one model was tiny - I don't think you could consider
it statistically significant. The highest average Focus was a 2001 2L
Man - 34.0 mpg, but only 2 reports were included. The lowest was for a
2002 2L Man - 24.4 mpg, but again this was based on two reports.
Hardly worth talking about. There were more reports from Corolla
owners, but not enough to be statistically significant. In general, it
appears to me that the delta between the Focus and Corolla based on
user reports is exactly what you would expect from the EPA estimates.
The typical Corolla driver probably gets 2 to 4 mpg more than the
typical Focus driver. On the other had the 4 Door Focus has more
passenger room than the Corolla ( 94 to 89 cubic feet) and more
luggage volume than the Corolla (15 to14 cubic feet). The mileage
difference was similar in the Conumer Reports Road Tests. For a 2003
Corolla LE sedan, 1.8-liter Four, 4-speed automatic, CR claimed 20
city, 39 highway, 35 on the 150 mile trip, and 29 mpg overall. For a
2002 Focus door hatchback, 2.0-liter Four, 4-speed automatic, CR
claimed 17 City, 33 highway, 29 on the 150 mile trip, and 24 mpg
overall (and the 2007 should have better mileage). So it seems to me
you can expect the larger Focus to get 2 to 4 miles per gallon less
than the Corolla. After 100,000 miles you might save $1500 on gas. I
am confident that I can by a Focus with similar equipment for more
than $3000 less than a Corolla. And remember the Focus is larger. When
you read the user reviews for the Corolla the things most people seem
to rave about are reliability and gas mileage. Focus drivers rave
about room and handling.
Actually, if you look at the '04s, it's 8.7 to 9.2. And the range of those
ratings isn't all that wide. Cars that are total, unmitigated pieces of
crap usually still manage an 8-point-something, because most of the reviews
are written before the breakdowns begin.
Well, read on...
I like to look a few years back, to see how the long-term reliability is
going to shape up. Here's my favorite Focus review - I was looking at
comments for the 2002 SE 4-door, it's the first one you see in that
category, but Edmunds does seem to mix models (or people are careless about
selecting matching models when entering their notes):
"In 4 years I have had to replace the front rotors and brake shoes (the
first year!), replace two window motors and regulators, replace the power
steering pump, rack & pinion unit, battery, CD player, factory dry rotted
tires, and the air bag light keeps coming on. The car looks brand new inside
and out, is regularly maintenance, has few passengers (no kids), is driven
carefully and has few miles on it. A mechanic said you have a 50/50 chance
on getting a good one. Guess which % I was in? Please, don't buy one!"
Just a 50/50 chance of getting a good Focus? Why would a mechanic think
that? I read the first 12 reviws. The very next:
"I bought this car at 20k miles. At 30k, it needed new brakes and completely
rebuilt calipers. The mechanic told me that it was very common for the
factory installed plastic calipers to fail at 30k miles. The car is now at
60k miles and has gone through 3 sets of brakes (I do not drive like a
maniac at all) 4 sets of tires, and 3 stereos. The factory-installed 6-disc
changer on this car is a piece of junk and fails constantly. Recently, the
engine has started leaking copious amounts of oil. With all of these
problems, I have been told that they are common with the Focus (especially
the 2002) but not with other cars in its class like the Toyotas. No pickup,
The very next:
"I bought my Focus SE used; it was only a year old - just off a fleet lease
in 2003. What got me to buy the car initially was the smooth/comfortable
ride for such a small car and the awesome sound system. It was just fun to
drive. I'm going into my 3rd year with this car (31,500 miles) and problems
are arising already. So far: CD/stereo volume control seldom works, 3 out of
the 4 heat/AC fan speeds don't work, the AC doesn't work at all, the fan
whines & sputters when it does "work", no power to extra outlet, trunk lid
closes shut 1/2 the time. It's becoming more & more clear to me why Toyota &
Honda sales are rising and American car companies sales are declining. I see
a Toyota in my future."
The very next:
We bought this car as students, and chose the wagon because we took lots of
road trips and camped a lot. The car is very roomy for cargo storage, and
the roof rack has come in handy more than once. The ergonomics of the dash
and radio are great, the fuel economy is good. Our issues with the car have
really been in the quality of the build rather than in its design. Front
springs broke at 50K, one spark plug stopped firing at 30K (covered by
warranty), we've gone through three sets of tires despite regular alignment
and rotations, brakes are small and wear away quickly, and rear license
plate light fell out at about 22K miles. Rear window no longer goes up if it
gets put down.
The very next, not as negative but not exactly a ringing endorsement::
"My wife and I replaced my old SUV with a compact to help alleviate rising
fuel costs. The car is not all that bad to drive, and we've yet to have any
problems. Well, except for three (3): 1. it can only get 20 m.p.g in city
driving; 2. the front left tire cannot hold air and we had all four tires
replaced at point of sale; 3. the trunk lid opens at inconvenient times. The
sticker claims the EPA fuel rating is 26/30, city/hwy. That in and of itself
isn't great for a compact, but 20 m.p.g or even less surprised me. Still,
the purchase price was fair and the dealer treated us with respect. Time
will tell if we're willing to buy another Ford or go back to Toyota."
The very next:
"Good gas mileage, acceptable performance, not too uncomfortable, but pretty
unreliable; seems to break down every other month after two years."
Are you keeping track? That was the first five reviews. Then we find a
(fairly) satisfied customer:
"Even 5 years on, when I looked for a small car to buy the Focus stood out.
The best aspects are a unique style inside and out, a user friendly interior
and seating position, the best handling of any non-sport compact but a
comfortable suspension worthy of a larger car. Don't worry, I say this
having test driven the Corolla, Civic and Golf. On the downside, the fuel
economy is not as good as it should be for a small car, the reliability is
acceptable, but not bullet-proof and there are a few annoyances that are
easily overshadowed by the good points."
Reliability is "acceptable!" Woo-hoo!! At leasst that guy will buy another
Ford, maybe, someday. Here's a much, much happier customer:
"My baby sleeps outside every night and never complains. She doesn't cough
or sputter when the weather gets cold. She doesn't blow her top and get
freaky when it gets really hot. Gently she carries me daily mile after mile.
It has the comfort and control of a finely tuned high performance car. I
fear she has only one fault that I can find, with her front end as low to
the ground it leaves the radiator and condenser sitting ducks for any small
creature with a death wish. My only hope is that they redesign the
protection of these by perhaps a deflector or stronger bracket.With that
said, my Focus has been the most dependable car I've ever owned ... I LOVE
I'm glad he likes his car but I think he needs to go out on a date with a
real girl. This guy likes his Focus, too:
"This is the best car I've bought so far. Besides the fact that it's very
fun to drive, it handles the road very well and has tons of storage space. I
have made many trips to Ikea and have fit very large boxes in my car, while
other people next to me in pick-up trucks had a hard time fitting smaller
boxes in their trucks. It's great on gas (about 30 miles average, more on
the freeway) and has plenty of horsepower. I would recommend this car to
anybody who likes the convenience of a wagon and the sportiness of the
However, he also went on to say:
"Better manufacturer brakes, which don't last too long. I got premium brakes
at PepBoys later, and they work just fine."
After another note or two from relatively satisfied customers, we find this
"Our company owns three 2002's. One blew engine after 1700 miles. Hose clamp
failed, waited 3 weeks for replacement motor under warranty. Tranny valve
went out in another car @ 22000 miles. Now this same car is needing a new
tranny @ 57000miles. All 3 have trunk release problems, eat tires and rattle
a lot. All of these cars have been maintained to Ford specs and dealership
service. No more Ford's for us. The jokes are still alive and well, Found On
the Road Dead & Fix Or Repair Daily."
What are 2002 Corolla owners saying? I looked at the first 12 reviews
there, too. The very first reviewer has a problem:
"This is an okay car that gets good gas mileage. It started burning oil at
around 85,000 miles, and is now going through a quart every 1,000 miles -
not what I'd expect from a Toyota. It handles okay, but not as well as my
'99 Ford Contour, and is really underpowered. Does not do well in snow, but
it does start up reliably, even in subzero temps."
Can't win 'em all. Maybe it's a cheap fix - he ought to get it looked at
and I'd recommend different tires if he's having snow handling issues. The
very next reviewer is satisfied, if uninspired:
"This corolla S is not the most exciting, but compared to my other cars
(audi/bmw) is built superior. In 33K, it has required ZERO maintenance
costs. Just oil changes and it gets 30mpg mix driving. The S version is much
nicer and the interior is pretty good. Handling is only ok. Resale value is
very high. Great student car."
And the quality is OK on this one but watch out for the 3-speed automatic
(available on the CE only, I guess):
"Another typically efficient Corolla from Toyota - with the glaring
exception of the 3-speed autobox. It's good for shuttling around town, but
venture out onto your local Interstate and the car gets way too noisy and
thirsty. A compact car such as this should average far better than 25mpg. So
go for the 4-speed auto every time. You'll save yourself a lot of fuel and
possibly your sanity too."
Not, "Don't buy a Corolla," just "don't buy one equipped with a 3-speed."
The next is a pretty happy Corolla owner:
"At 82,000 miles This little car is an around winner. I bought it in 2001
and I have never had any problems with it. I replaced the original cheap
Goodyear tires the first month because I got tired of sliding all over the
road in the rain. This is without a doubt the most dependable transportation
car I have ever owned."
So was the next:
"Owned this car for over a year and I really can't find anything bad to say
about it!!! Purhaps a little more leg room for back seat
passengers,otherwise a great buy."
Then a solid endorsement of the brand:
"The Toyota Corolla is the best car I've owned. It has excellent fuel
economy and the vehicle is very reliable. The next vehicle I purchase will
be either a Toyota Corolla or a Camry."
As was the next:
"Owned the LE three years now, and just change oil and add gas occasionally!
My roads are secondary, usually, so I can normally get 40 to 44 MPG (55
MPH). I researched before buying, and know I made the right choice. The ONLY
complaint is that the car needs either a six-speed, or more HP. Even a
seasoned manual transmission driver (all my life) can still kill the engine
at times. It just does not have a low enough first gear! I am 55 years old
and this will be my last commuter, it is built that well. Just keep clean
oil in it, and pay attention to coolant change-outs. You will not be
And the next:
"I got this car to travel weekly between my home near New Orleans and my new
job in Texas, 326 miles each way on the weekends. Am getting 39 miles at 70
mpg on highway, no problems at all. I am very tall and need seat to go back
farther, other than that am fully satisfied. My last four vehicles have been
Toyotas, super dependable, never in shop."
The next review ranked it "10's" across the board but only had this to say:
"There was a problem with my leather interior on the doors, but the
manufacturer replaced it."
I guess he liked it. Next:
"Amazing little car it gets 39 MPG with 5 speed manual transmission.
Excellent commuter. I paid $11,800 for this jewel brand new and it has been
a very reliable automobile. It's going on 60K miles and no problem. It has
Air Conditioning but no power windows."
"Amazing" and "jewel." I guess he likes it. The next guy has buyer's
"Reasonably comfortable, utilitarian vehicle. However, the fuel efficiency
has not been impressive. I will probably purchase an American car next,
because: 1. Their engineering and design teams are making substantial
progress toward reestablishing themselves as innovators. 2. The aggressive
discounting by the American automobile companies has made their cars an
unmatched value. Can you tell that I regret the purchase and wish I'd bought
a far- superior -- and cheaper -- American car, instead?"
But even he didn't cite any reliability issues or other problems. Gee, Ed,
was that your review? I also fail to see how that guy thought the Americans
were reestablishing themselves as innovators in '02, when the only hybrid
available was a Toyota Prius. Maybe in '02, Chrysler was bringing back a
"new, more formal roofline." Next, another happy customer:
"I bought this car as a commuter and was glad when the only one left on the
lot was the S model. This is my first Toyota and I will definitely buy
another one in the future. I highly recommend the S model for the sportier
feel and added amenities. This is a daily driver that I put 100 miles per
Is every owner joyously happy with their Toyota? Well, no, but most are and
they whole-heartedly endorse Toyotas.. And a couple of Focus owners are
pretty happy. But in all these reviews, the thing that stands out are the
ones who swear they won't buy that make again - and that's only found in the
Focus reviews. None of the Toyota reviewers slammed the brand like that.
Moving up to 2004, 3 out of the first 20 Focus reviews cite serious
reliability issues, only 1 of the Toyota reviews mentions serious
disapointment (and that was fuel economy).
And I'm really shocked by the number of people who need brake work by 30K
miles (several Chevy models are like that, too). All of my Toyotas are
'99-'01s and only one (the one with 124K miles) has needed any brake work at
all (that's right, original PADS on Toyotas with 69K, 79K and 95K miles).
And NO problems on any of them. And by NO, I mean NO. All the little
switches and accessories work, the windows power up and down at full speed,
there's no odd mechanical noises (standing next to them when idling, you can
hardly tell they're running), no buzzing in the speakers. And they all hit
their EPA fuel economy rating or do better.
What's my next car? An '09 Prius. Or maybe an Accord Diesel.
Which is good because you'll need the remaining $1500 for repairs. You'll
be replacing the brakes within the first three years.
And I'm not sure just how you're getting those numbers (Corolla is 2 to 4mpg
better) for fuel economy because that's certainly not what I'm finding.
2006 Focus, 2.0L, 5M, EPA combined 26, user reported 29.9, 8 reports.
2006 Focus 2.3L, 5M, EPA combined 23, user reported 27, 1 report.
2006 Corolla 1.8L, 5M, EPA combined 31, user reported 36.4, 16 reports
With sticks, user reports put the Corolla nearly 7mpg ahead.
2006 Focus, 2.0L, 4A, EPA combined 25, user reported 25, 5 reports.
2006 Corolla 1.8L, 4A, EPA combined 29, user reported 32.6, 24 reports.
With autos, again, the Corolla has about a 7mpg lead.
The '05s were a bit closer, with the Corolla having a 5 to 6mpg lead.
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Actually I never got screwed, I was the Group Sales Manager, we were the
ones doing the screwing. We always made a higher gross on our import
brands and gave lower trade prices. LOL
When you sell your own cars do you do a 'trade through' at the dealership
where you are buying your next car?
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