Exactly who would run such a test? If their filters meet OEM
requiremnts, don't you think K&N would say so? Do you have
any proof that K&N Filters meet the Ford specifications?
Even Fram claims to meet OEM specifications. K&N never says
that they meet or exceed OEM requirments. Instead they spend
a lot of time trying to obscure the issue by talking about
the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and trying to imply that this
negates the need of meeting OEM specifications, which it
On the otherhand, as I pointed out in another post, Ford
Performance Parts actually sells K&N Filters under a Ford
Part Number. This fact seems to me to be an oblique
endorsement of K&N filters.
Ford can require you to use parts that meet certain
specifications. They just can't require you to buy "Ford"
"K&N interprets this law to also prohibit the motor vehicle
manufacturer from restricting your use of a particular brand
of air filter, oil filter, etc."
While this is true, it does not also mean that you can use
any old "filter." If ken's interpretation was true, I could
stick a chunk of chicken wire in the filter box and claim
that it wouldn't void the warranty. I think the correct
interpretation of the law is - "You can use any brand of
filter you want as long as it meets or exceeds Ford's
performance requirements." Whether or not K&N filters meet
Ford performance requirements in debatable.
Since K&N doesn't clearly claim to meet OEM spec's, I'd
recommend that they not be used. However, Ford Performance
Parts does sell K&N filters and Saleen Mustangs are sold
with them installed with the warranty intact. So, if you are
patient and willing to fight it out in court, I suppose you
could use those facts to claim that Ford has acknowledged
that K&N filters are acceptable replacement filters. Might
make for an interesting court battle. See
http://tinyurl.com/47p7v , go to page 154 in The Sport
Compact Performance Parts section or see
http://tinyurl.com/5et6k . This is a K&N Air Filter, sold by
Ford for a Ford. It even has a Ford P/N. The catalog note
lists it as a "direct replacement part" and there is not any
restriction noted. I'd say this amounts to an acceptance by
Ford of K&N Filters, at least for some vehicles. For sure if
you buy the Ford branded K&N Filter and have it installed at
the dealer, you are virtually assured your warranty will be
Personally I will not use a K&N Filter on a street car
(whether bought from K&N or Ford). The performance gain will
be minimal (if any), the fuel economy gain non-existent,
there is a possibility of MAF contamination, and I don't
believe they filter as well as a good quality paper filter.
The non negligible risk and little possibility for reward
make K&N filters a bad decision.
Let's just cut to the chase.
ANyone on the list have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE of Ford, or any other
manufacturer refusing warranty because of a K&N filter being installed
on the vehicle????
If so, lets have it.
Put up or shut up.
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:24:02 -0400, firstname.lastname@example.org
"SERVICE - ALL BUICK, CADILLAC, CHEVROLET, GMC TRUCK, ISUZU,
OLDSMOBILE, PONTIAC AND HUMMER DEALERS
Subject: A/T Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or SES Light On as a
Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively
Oiled Air Filter -- 2004 and Prior Cars and Lt Duty Trucks and
2003-2004 HUMMER H2
Message #: VSS20040056
Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013 will be available in SI on
March 18, 2004.
Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service
Engine Soon (SES)
Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable,
Excessively Oiled Air Filter
Models: 2004 and All Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2004 HUMMER H2
First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively
oiled air filter
DON'T DO THIS
DO NOT repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a
reusable aftermarket oiled air filter.
The installation of an aftermarket reusable, oiled air filter may
1. Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On
2. Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or
3. Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop,
limited engine RPM range
The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred
onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the
sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF
may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check
for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air
filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with
a OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify
Transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of
the installation of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air
filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items"
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:
"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789
K&N's are ONLY claimed to be effective at or near WOT...That's foot-to-the-
floor! Otherwise any decent filter will allow all the air the engine asks
So if you dont care about HP, it COULDNT do you any good.
1. It's the MAF that determines combustion "efficiency" and with the K&N you
have to clean MAF more often than the every 5 years or so that most are
cleaned -if ever.
2. YOu dont mention the car... but dont you realize that Ford designed the
systems on all cars to obtain max efficiency so as to meet mileage standards?
The K&N is a reputable and viable product for HIGH PERFORMANCE modders who
have altered the rest of their induction system to take advantage of such a
product, but simply slapping one on to your taurus family car is just silly
IF you're interested enough to spring for an add-on like that without
understanding how the systems work, you're going to be a sucker for every
other add-on that comes down the road.
Like battery powered superchargers on ebay
Go to the library. Read the Probst books and those on modding the 5.0 and 2.3
to understand how engines work with FI
[This followup was posted to alt.autos.ford and a copy was sent to the
What car is it being put into? Unless it's more than 10+ years old or
a low-end budget car, the filter is probably not a major factor. With
the power race, manufacturers have made the intake and exhaust systems
very efficient. Many simple bolt-on mods typically add only a few
horsepower at best. That might be noticeable on a car that only makes
100-110hp, but on a 200+ V6 or V8, you won't notice it. Plus, you'll
really only notice it at full or near-full throttle. Unless you carry or
tow heavy loads, or drag race, you'll never notice it or get any payback
from the higher cost.
Most of the claims you see are typically for older 60's/70's muscle
cars and similar. Or people who replace a 5-year old clogged filter.
Plus, I believe K&N filters are oiled filters. You must be careful
because if that oil gets onto the MAF (Mass Airflow Sensor), it can clog
or otherwise affect it, causing engine problems.
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
HEre's an easy way to think about things like this.
If you could see into the throttle body of your intake system while you are
cruising or just driving normally the throttle plate would look as if it was
nearly closed... on one side of it is a vacuum, on the other side is air
really WANTING to get in.
so it is the throttle that's restricting the airflow ..AND THATS WHAT YOU
With port fuel injection the fuel is WAY down the line so any "swirl" (as if
it could make it past the intake hosing) has no effect on the mix at this
If you dont believe me, borrow or buy a cheap vacuum gauge and hook it to the
manifold... then watch it while you're driving... and note the filter can
ONLY affect the engine when the gauge shows near zero
Denny B opined in
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:11:32 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
You are 100% correct. A filter has to be pretty badly restricted to
affect power at less than WOT on today's vehicles.
I had the K&N replacement filter in the stock air filter case on my
Aerostar vans. I installed mine (on my first van) on a trip , pulling
a 17 foot cabin trailer across country from central Ontario to BC, via
the american midwest.
I think I got slightly better performance in the mountains with the
K&N, but I really only bought it to avoid generating trash every
couple months or every year throwing away a disposable filter.
I am, by nature, adverse to throwing away something that could still
have some use left - or that could be replaced ONCE with something
that can then be serviced and not replaced.
My vehicles always last well beyond the average lifespan because I
take care of them. The filter went from my first aerostar into my last
one, and as far as I know is still in it (sold the van over 2 years
I have had two cars in 36 years, a 1968 Nova and now still
my 1981 Ford Fairmont. I am the mechanic on my vehicle and
have no interest and time for GIMMICKS.
I am not interested in the K&N filter for more power nor
for fuel economy. The construction of the K&N makes me believe
more air will pass through as compared to the paper ( wood ) filter.
Stores love to sell you paper filters and keep you coming back and the
car manufactures are only interested in installing minimum standard
components and parts for the AVERAGE JOE (that's me) on their
vehicles. To maintain your vehicle until the warranty has expired
the car manufactures want to make maintenance cheap for you
like paper air filters.
Do you think the car manufacturer can buy a K&N filter
for 10 cents? If they could you'd have a K&N filter in your vehicle.
I am not interested in any special K&N air filter, I will get the
for my paper filter and fit the K&N directly into the filter housing.
is exactly the same as the paper filter.
I put a K&N in my wife's Explorer Sport. I then took a trip from LA to MT.
The average MPG was 23. Funny thing, that is the exact same MPG average I
got the two years before on the exact same trip. So, did it do any thing?
Well, it did make my wallet a whole lot lighter:) Other than that, not a
damn thing as far as I can tell. I'll bet if I had the "Tornado" and some
Slick 50 in the crankcase I could have done better...whatdaya think? Fool me
once, shame on you. Fool me twice and I'm a dumb fuck.
R. J. Talley
"iBuyMinis.Us" < snipped-for-privacy@OsiTech.Net(remove)> wrote in message
K&N filters are an excellent buy for your Ford at $47. Here in the UK they
are sold as a 'sporty' accessory and pitched at ridiculously high prices.
They are much better than original equipment - but watch how much you pay.
For Welsh Military Flying visit .......
First: If a person really wants performance, don't use any filter. Dragsters
don't use any.
Second: If you want to protect your engine, don't keep your foot to the floor.
Third: if you just want to be "KEWL", buy anything and everything that looks
good, sounds good and everyone else has.
You have to ask yourself, "Do I want to pay for the short life of the engine,
or do I want to look Kewl, or do I want to be the "voice of reason".
First off - you dont specify, which leads the reader to assume that'you're
talking about the K&N performance filter not the replacement version.
And you SAID you didnt care about HP yet you care about air-flow...
WTF does THAT mean?
Combine this with your LATER statements that you're buying them because
paper filters are such a waste of money.. your time to clean the filter
apparently doesnt count.
How long does the "refreshing" process take? How long to clean a MAF...
which seems to me should be done, because the filter is oiled, each 50k as
What are your driving conditions? Lotsa dust dust sand gravel in the air?
Go ahead... makes sense.
No? why bother.
Your logic is like... if a purolator / wix filter at 3- 5 bucks is good, then
a 10 buck mobil 1 should be better... even though I change oil at 3 k!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
Know a furnace A/C guy? Ask him to help and attach his manometer before and
after the filter and take it on the road, see what it shows full throttle
with both a dirty paper/20,000 miles, a clean paper, and a K&n oiled
I've done it.... though not with a k&N.
YMMV but that's why I change air filters every 25 K if then, but I knock it
on a clean sheet of paper every oil change to see what happens.
May open your eyes a little.
Lesse...I could buy a Kn.. for 50 bucks, spend 2 hours every 50 k cleaning it
and the MAF. Thats once a year for me..
Or I could spend 16 bucks for 2 and 1/4 hour vaccing the box per year,
cleaning MAF every other year....At that rate, I'll pay back the cost of the
K&N about the time I run the car to the scrappers.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.