Re: Ford Posts Loss of $5.8 Billion, Worst Since '92

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On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:28:47 -0400, "Grover C. McCoury III"
First "improvement" Mulally has to accomplish is to clean up Billy Boy
Ford's doo doo messes. We will never see another Ford family scion at the top of this company. After the disasters of King Henry II and the latest dingbat, the Ford Family Duchy is finally gone.

performance, Mr. Mulally replied, "There's no reason why we can't do this, so it's no pressure." <snip>
Ask him again in six months.
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wrote:

improvement, he added. <snip>

performance, Mr. Mulally replied, "There's no reason why we can't do this, so it's no pressure." <snip>

Don't bet anything but wooden nickels on that line of thinking. My opinion, and that's all it is, is my opinion, is that the Ford family wants to take the company private, drive the stock down and its cheaper to do. The worst thing for a company is board of directors and a ton of share holders more interested in short term stock dividends and ratings, than long term health of the company and the product. And public traded companies end up just that way. Whitelightning
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:18:12 GMT, "Whitelightning"

I think Ford (and GM and Chysler) is in a lot worse shape than they admit. They only chance any of them have to survive is to get labor cost way down and improve quality. It will never happen in current structuring. They are kidding themselve (managemtn and Labor) if they think they can pull it off otherwise. Prices have reached critical mass and can no longer sell to support current costs and benifits. If they all could cut labor costs 30% or more they could sell vehicle 15% cheaper across the board and make a profit and boost sales but they seem to keep hoping that people will except pay more for their car than some did for a house 20 years ago. The worst is yet to come for them. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

You friggin idiot! How about you take a 30% pay cut and donate it to the big 3. Your pretty free with everybody else's money, put your's where your big mouth is!
they could sell vehicle 15%

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Oh the real idiot speaks! You really are clueless but as usual shoot you mouth off about thing you hane no real understanding of. Currently 70% of the cost of building a new car is LABOR!!!!! The market will not longer support it plan and simple. The big three will go under if this is not changed as the writing in on the wall. The airlines have been going through this for years and do not make what they once did. You are free to beilve othersie but wishing do not make it happen. It is going to basicall come down to in the next 3 to 5 years tops that there will either be big waage concessions or they will be out of a Job because the Big 3 will go bankrupt. The pot is not limitless and it is getting empty fast and higher fuel prices will be here soon two with $4 a gallon fuel not far away one day and Detriot is still stuck on gas hogs that they have to beg people to buy. I bet you beleive that we can grow our way out of this in the field with ethanol too. The only problem with tis is if all of the corn was used (leaving none for food at all) it would only replace about 25 to 30% of the gas used daily tops but since we have to eat too it will not make that big of impact. Detriot has their head in the sand and just keeps build the gas hogs that will soon have gas payments bigger than car payments. They only way they can survive long term is to get costs down and lower price of product to offset higher fuel costs or go out of bussiness. Sure you can blame Toyota and Honda but Detriot gave the market to them with their limited vision and there fixation with high profit SUVs since mid 90's that paid labors bills but are not longer bringing in profit because they are not selling without big discounts and incentives but you would know this too if you knew math and ecomonics. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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What made you decide to move your signature to the top of your posts?
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Don't you think it was an improvement? Bob
wrote:

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It's the first honorable thing he's done in a long time.
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wrote:

I think to call it honorable may be a stretch...... let's call it a good start. Bob
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Sorry my friend, I can't use the word good and Snoman in the same conversation.
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wrote:

How do you know what I know about or what my background is, or what I have a understanding of?
I'm waiting for you to take a 30% cut in pay! Well?

Now it is 70%? Make up your mind.
Oh while I have your attention. Nice one on the chevy group about the brakes. You are such a idiot.

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Given your comments, it is easy to figure out. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

Well, well, That has to be the first time you have answered a question! Now, how about explaining the brake info you posted?

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something wonderfully witty:

Well if I was a Ford Assembly Line worker at a plant facing closure I think I just might take a 30% pay cut as opposed to a 100% one. So I go from making $70k to $49k a year to screw on door handles. Its still better then food stamps. (BTW those are real numbers as a guy I used to work with went on with the plant three years ago. We still keep in touch. He was making about $32k a year as an industrial mechanic when he worked with me.)
The Norfolk Va F-150 plant is closing sometime in 2007. Ford claims that it costs $300 per unit more to make a F-150 at that plant then any other one making F-150's. The plant is old, not as highly automated as some others and not worth the capital investment even though it makes Ford's best selling vehicle. Do you think that labor at that plant got together and said "Ok for the sake of our jobs will reduce labor by $305 per unit to make us the cheapest plant making F150's"?
It could have been done, but it would have been unprecedented. Union labor working with management to cut production costs and save jobs. Perish the thought.
--
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ZombyWoof
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wrote

He was feeding you a line of BS as to how much he was making, unless he was working 15 hours over time every week, and as he only has 3 years with Ford thats is stretching it very hard.
Whitelightning
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On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 03:08:09 GMT, "Whitelightning"

I think it's just a figment of this guy's imagination. He hates union workers, because they do better than he does. I see it every day...stupid people, working more for less, but wanting no one else to do well, either. The Japs laugh their asses off at people like this every day, and take advantage of them in all their scab plants now in the US every day.
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wrote something wonderfully witty:

Nah I don't "hate" union workers. I'm able to do quite well for myself without the need for collective bargaining or the paying of Union dues. However, I do realize that not everyone is able to effectively deal in the market place on their own skills & abilities and need the benefits of collective bargaining to get them anywhere.
That wasn't my point. I think that unfortunately collective bargaining for salary & benefits has now got them to the point where they may have priced themselves out of the current market. It can happen when economics shift.
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On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 03:08:09 GMT, "Whitelightning"

I forgot to mention that it was with overtime, an average of about 20-hours and a shift differential. If I remember correctly he started at ~$22.00 an hour with an excellent benefits package. His job really is to mount the door handles on F-150's. Not a very demanding job for the wage.
We have several people in the area who have multiple generations of their family who have worked at the plant which is the case in this guys family, he has a Da & brother who work there also. The very first thing many do after High School graduation is sign up on the plants hire list. It took about eight years for this guy to get called for a job. He had planned on staying there forever. No one saw the closing coming since they make F-150's. It is a pretty big deal here locally and getting a lot of media coverage.
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wrote:

Liar. First of all, these people are getting good buyouts. You can't get one. Sounds like typical jealousy.

...and had rotted teeth and no routine medical care.
What are you proposing...dropping the standard of living in America even more?

Not anymore. Seen F-150 sales figures lately? Off 30%.

You're dealing with pro-management/anti-labor smoke and mirrors. The biggest F-150 plant is...tada...the Rouge plant in Dearborn, and they make MORE than your local plant does. They're not closing Rouge...they're closing YOURS. Obviously, labor cost per unit is NOT the problem. Get the picture?
Oh yeah...the Rouge has been around for some 90 years. There goes your "old plant" theory, too.

You obviously are oblivious to all the cuts Chrysler workers took to keep them afloat in the late '70s/early '80s...sometimes MORE that 30%, and that was when interest rates were in the high 'teens.
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wrote something wonderfully witty:

I know what the buyouts are. They have been discussed to death in the press. Depending on years service and program picked the basic offer is 100,000 or 140,000 cash pre-tax. That isn't an awful lot of money to be left without any job and no other major manufacturing job to go to. Our other major industry is call centers.
I have no worry about a buyout as I am retired military, have a decent job making good money that isn't going anywhere and am covered by a pretty good pension program.

Still the best selling vehicle in America.

The Rouge plant is larger and has been modernized. There is no money, because Ford is bleeding money, to modernize the Norfolk plant. Ford claims that it costs $300 per unit more to make F-150's at Norfolk and that is the reason for closing. I have no idea if that is the truth or not, just that is what Ford said. If it is the case and I worked there, I would be willing to take a pay cut in order to make the numbers work as opposed to losing my job.

Apparently I am oblivious to those particular cuts. However, I'm not calling you names over it. Were those proposals that management made to labor or that labor presented to management. I was talking about labor coming up with proposals to cut production costs in order to keep their plant open & save their jobs. It seems that it is always management that has to come up with the ideas and drive them down as opposed to the people closer to the problem. Labor is one of the biggest cost factors in production. Allowing them input into the process of how to reduce that cost seems natural to me.
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