Yes they do, but the Federal government also wastes just to damn much.
How many Billions to Iraq? How much is wasted in social programs that
has just led people to become dependant on public largess? Social
Security dollars dumped into the general fund to be squandered year
after year with no return on investment. I was a soldier, a career
one matter of fact. At no time during my entire career did I ever
really feel I was really defending the country. I could go on, but
the only point I am making is that it is a two-sided coin with worth
that has grown a little to large for its britches.
Yeah I guess my old ass could bike 20 miles each way along a major
highway, but I think I'll pass. I do motorcycle in good weather
though. Does that count?
Really? Where do you buy your used cars?
Here in the real world used cars go for about 3/4 the price of a new
one, with 50K-70K on the odometer. As a matter of fact I have seen
used cars selling in suburban Phillly for more than the new ones cost.
Don't know who would buy them. The local Jeep dealer had a used
Wrangler on the lot with a sticker of $16,900 while on the other side
of the lot sat a new Wrangler with a sticker of $16,800. The used Jeep
had about 50K miles on ot too!
I think they keep the price of used stuff high to get people to buy
Because the new car side of the lot doesn't offer buy here pay here, the the
fool buying the over priced used one's credit is soo screwed up he cant buy
a new one, and the lot doesnt mind repoing it and selling six times before
its actualy gone.
Really? According to Kelly Blue Book, a 2001 Ford Taurus with 70,000 mi
should be around $5,000 to $6,000 depending on condition and accessories
(private party price).
And which had more accessories? Probably the used one. You are comparing a
Jeep that costs around $30,000 new to one that costs $20,000 new (list
And, if you were a dealer, what would you do? Sell cars at the minimum
profit to keep you in business or try to make as much money as you can on
each vehible. Hell, if they could sell a used one for $50,000, they would.
In fact, if anyone is interested in my used Contour for only $50,000, you
can buy it today.
Ther are times & vehicles that are cheaper to buy new then used, oh
and yes if you are flexible on the options it does make a difference.
Case in point I originally want to buy a 2/3 year old pickup to avoid
the initial depreciation hit. Most of the ones available for sale in
my area were fully equipped XLT/LT models in the $18k range with about
30/40k miles on the clock. I was able to get a 2005 Ford SXT, V8,
auto, air, cd, tow package, stepside body new design during the 2005
model year for $18,444 out the door. Which vehicle was the better
buying decision? The used one with milage and a minimal warranty or
the new, redesigned model with a full factory warranty?
If their used pricing was a trick to get me to buy new it certainly
worked in my case, but what are they going to do with that used
Really? I see what you mean. There are fewer and fewer cars on the road and
fewer and fewer cars sold every year. Families have fewer cars than ever
In real life, more often, there are families with more cars than drivers.
Actually, adjusting for inflation, is the cost of a car more or less than it
was say 30 years ago? Actually, about 0.2% more for domestic cars. Then,
also adjust for the fact that cars last longer no than 30 years ago. So the
price of a car has actually been falling when adjusting for inflation,
decreased maintaince and increased life-span.
You can always by a used car without airbags, antilock brakes or other
Requiring drive by wire in 2 1/2 years? Are you nuts? No one does than now.
It will take more than 2 1/2 years to bring that on. It might be that some
cars will be drive by wire, but not more than a few.
It is all relative, I guess. In 1955 the median income was $3,200. I
bought my first HOT car, a Black/White 1955 Buick Century 2 dr hardtop for
around $3,900. My wage at the time a quite respectable $1,84 an hour, about
$3,800 a year.
When I was in college in 1947 I worked in a gas station for the minimum wage
of .25c an hour and gas was .17c. Today the minimum wage is around $5.70,
and going up, to over $7 and gas is down to 2.10 here ;)
Without a doubt something has to be done to control labor & benefits
costs. I really do think that the quality paradigm is a figment of
Consumers Reports. I am more then happy with my Ford & Lincoln
products from a quality standpoint. The only major complaint I have
is the interiors still seem to wear faster then on my GM products, but
that just maybe my perception.
I think all corporations in America are battling major costs in the
benefit arena regardless if they are Unionized or not. Health care
expenses are completely through the roof. My own organization has
been experiencing double digit increases in premiums for a number of
years now. Since our creation over two decades ago we offered no cost
coverage to all our employees with only a small additional charge for
family coverage. Four years ago we simply could not eat the entire
increase in the premium and were forced to charge each employee $15 a
payday for primary coverage with a $10 co-pay. This year that charge
has risen to $45 with a $20 co-pay with the company picking up
$417.00. You really don't want to know what family rates are.
We pay a decent local wage, but no where near what people at the local
Ford plant (which will be closing next year) make for similar jobs.
Their health care plan also covers a lot more then ours does as well
and offers a lot more benefits with a more comprehensive dental plan.
However, later next year all of our employees will have a job and the
poor guys & gals over at the Ford plant won't be working there. I
hope they find something, but it won't be making $70,000 a year for
putting on door handles.
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:18:12 GMT, "Whitelightning"
I don't know if they deliberately drove down the stock in order to do
so, but I do believe your right that the family would love to take the
company private again for the reasons you've listed and many more. It
would be great to be able to run a car company for the long term as
opposed to short sighted return on investments & bond ratings. We
actually get to see some really interesting products and some true
research into alternatives.
I think Bill being a car guy really had something to do with some
recent Ford products that did turn out to be successful. Without his
input/control there might not have been much soul in the Mustang redo.
We might have saw a four-banger econobox version instead of pretty
closer to performance six as the baseline offering.
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