Re: US car dealers turn away Canadian new-car buyers - is that legal?

I realize that this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but Pennsylvania has a 6% sales tax. Allegheny and Philadelphia Counties have a 1% sales tax, thus making a 7% sales tax paid on items purchased there. If a person goes to a surrounding county and makes a major purchase they can save 1%. BUT, eventually you will be billed for the 1% if the out of County dealer didn't collect it. And now they notify the county if you make major purchases other than vehicles, ie., appliances, furniture, etc..

With a cash and carry situation, it is fairly simple to get around some taxes. Registering a motor vehicle is much different. I don't know how the Provinces work, but here, you cannot register a vehicle unless the proper taxes are paid. Importing can subject you to certain regulations also since the vehicle must comply with Federal regulations for emissions and safety.

All of that said, I don't see why a dealer should turn away a buyer that walks into his store. I can see where GM may want the dealer to refuse so they can keep the Canadian dealers happy, but I doubt any laws can be made.

My question remains.

Do US franchise agreements between CAR DEALERS ->and

There are no such laws. Franchise dealers have no obligation to sell to anybody, just as they have no obligation to sell at a particular price.

There are restrictions when it come to which VEHICLES can be sold in some instances, however. I. E. cars sold in states that do not require California emission system can not be sold in states that do, like the states in New England. Even that does not restrict the dealer from selling the car, but it does prevent it from being licensed in that state. In other words a vehicle without California emission, that would be driven only on private property, but not only the public highways, could be sold in a California emission only state.

mike

Yes they have agreements that state where a dealer can sell vehicles. They don't restrict the dealer from selling to other customers they just state that Joe-Bobs Chevrolet will be the only authorized dealer for a certain area, and that the company won't set up another dealer for a set time period. As for restricting the sales to other areas, it depends on the federal and state emission and safety laws. In NY for example a NEW vehicle must meet NY standards (which are the same as California) You cannot buy a vehicle new in another state and register it in NY unless it meets those standards.

As for buying in Canada and registering it in the US. It is usually restricted due to the emissions and the high importation fees. Those are Federal importation rules. Same ones that apply if you buy a Ferrari and try to import it. They have to go through a Federal inspection and retrofit so they comply with the laws in the US. Doesn't matter if the car was bought in Canada or Africa they still have to be imported the same way.

The same import restrictions apply taking the vehicle into Canada. No laws saying that those restrictions are illegal exist.

The dealer can refuse to sell to anyone. They own the vehicles and can sell or not sell to whomever they please. They can even have you removed from the dealership and arrested for trespassing if they desire.

there may be an issue with warranty as well. I had a Ram 3500 pick up come in with the check engine light on. we found it needed a gas cap but warranty would not cover it because the vehicle was manufactured and sold in Mexico. we were told the vehicle has no warranty in the USA.

Can a Denny's refuse to serve or do business with black customers? There is no law against it?

Why would a franchise owner refuse someone paying MSRP, paying in cash (or bank draft, or some other registered security) ???

Why do US dealerships say that it's their FRANCHISE AGREEMENT that prohibits them from selling to Canadians?

What salesman would be happy with the franchise owner nixing such a sale?

Why are we hearing reports of US dealerships getting letters from auto makers reminding them that they can't sell to Canadians?

What about this:

We are not talking about restrictions on where (physically, geographically) a dealer can operate from.

We are talking about a US dealer refusing to sell a new car to a Canadian customer soley on the basis that the customer is Canadian.

There is no question as to the ability of the Canadian to produce funds or sufficient payment. There is no issue as to how the Canadian customer moves the purchased vehicle away from the dealership to it's destination (where-ever that may be). The sale is not contingent on the dealer delivering the car to the Canadian customer's place of residence, or a responsibility to insure the car can be registered for operation in the customer's jursidiction.

Restraint of trade laws say that it is illegal to have a contract between two parties that restricts trade between them.

That would make it illegal for a car maker to have a clause in a franchise agreement stating that the dealer is prohibited from selling products to specified persons or groups.

If a GM franchise agreement with a Detroit car dealership states that the dealership can't sell new cars to Canadian citizens, then couldn't a MacDonald's franchise agreement have a clause saying that Big Mac's can't be sold to blacks?

Are you saying there is no law that would make such a clause illegal?

For the last time.

This is not about warranties, This is not about emmissions or other regulations This is not about import/export issues, duties or taxes

This is about a Canadian walking into a US dealership and plunking down a money order or cashiers check for the full MSRP window-sticker (Monroney) amount for a given new vehicle (plus any applicable state or local retail sales tax) and loading the vehicle onto a flatbed truck and driving away with it.

Why on earth would a US car dealer turn away a sale like that?

The reason being offered is that the FRANCHISE AGREEMENT prohibits sales to Canadians. So I'm asking if such an agreement is legal, given restraint-of-trade laws.

I have no horse in this race, but from a legal standpoint, blacks are a protected class. Canadians are not.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Blacks: Protected class.

Canadians: Not protected class.

Certain laws trump others.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Ok, replacem blacks with Asians, or native indians.

Ok, what law trumps what other law then?

Yes it is legal. Restraint of trade has NOTHING to do with Federal Import/Export laws.

A franchise agreement is a private contract. If the franchisor stipulates a condition that the franchisee cannot sell across an international boundary, then the franchisee has to choose to honour, or defy the conditions of the agreement. If the penalty for breaching the contract is loss of the franchise, then that is the result.

I believe that only discrimination that you can't include in a contract would be areas protected by constitutional provisions, or by specific legislation. Certainly here in Canada protection from racial discrimination is provided by the Charter of Rights. Any service business has the right to refuse service to anyone they choose, as long as it does not violate Charter Rights.

Ford > Bill Putney wrote:

maybe you should take this to misc.legal, it is already crossposted to 3 groups why not add a legal group since you are asking a legal question. you do know these groups are full of people who can tell you why your mini-van makes a rattling noise when driving over bumps but as far as legalities I don't think so.

unless you are just trolling. if so then excuse me I will get out of the way.

Read Wes's reply - that is an example. There are many other examples in everyday life - some that shouldn't be, and many that are based on politics. For example - so-called affirmative action laws trump anti-discrimination laws. There might be a law that says I can't fire a weapon within town limits that might get trumped if I am forced to to save my or someone elses life. Almost infinite examples.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Again, we are NOT talking about import or export issues. The US dealer is NOT involved in import or export activities when (or if) he sells a new car to a Canandian customer. It's the Canadian customer who must import the car into Canada - the dealer is NOT involved.

There is no such cross-boarder selling in this case. The US dealer is not doing the leg-work to import the car into Canada - the Canadian customer is.

Why is that concept so hard to understand?

The new car will leave the US dealer's car lot either by the Canadian customer driving it off the lot himself, or with his own hired flatbed transport.