Dexcool leak

Often those leaks also allow coolant into the motor oil, which is very bad for the engine.

I would not count on leak plugging goop to be a fix.

John

Yes that stuff is really that bad. Only use the pellets in applications that require them, never in a car that does not.

If I could show you the 60+ engines I have replaced due to that stuff you would be convinced. Hell right now a customer has a 1994 Buick Skylark with a 3.1 V6. It had a lower intake gasket leak. They bought it dead. When I took the oil filter off I found all the bar's leak. That is the stuff that didn't go thru the bypass and eat the barring out of the rods. Charles

Why not? Apparently (so it seems, anyway) GM considers the pellets a "fix".

If you use the GM stuff, as David mentioned, you won't go wrong. I believe they even installed those seal tabs in that engine in that year right from the factory. I doubt that it will fix your leak, but you can give it a try. If all else fails, there are some cheaper routes to go then replacing the lower intake. There are some kits that you can use to install a new pipe in the lower manifold and install a sleeve in the plastic plenum. I wouldn't recommend this route myself to a customer that came into our shop, but then I have to stand behind the repair.

Ian

applications

Are you saying that someone put Bar's Leak in the crankcase oil? H

he's referring to the 3.1L series engine where the coolant leak is internal and the coolant gets in the oil.

From Ian's post, however, I gather that eng>

The engine in question by the OP (orginal poster) is a buick 3.8 Series II V6. The engine I posted about is a Chevy 3.1/3100 Gen III V6. Both leak differently, yet both have lower intake seal issues.

My point was adding stop leak to either is not recommended. Charles

The intake gasket on the 3.1/3100 will leak coolant in to the oil. Where these gaskets fail is at the head to intake seal. When they leak, coolant goes straight to the return gallies under the valve covers.

The pervious owner of the car in question had kept adding coolant, and stop leak to the cooling system. They must never have pulled the oil dip stick and seen it was white.

My customer purchased the car at a police impound auction. I was with him. I pulled the dip stick and saw the white oil, figured intake leak, and advised him not to go higher then $100. He got the car for $75.

Since you can not start the cars there, not to mention the steering column was in such shape it would not start, we had to wait a few days until I could get a column. Once the car could be steered, and I had a workable ignition switch, I could proceed. The next step was to drain the oil. Spray out the pan with cleaner. let a quart of used drain thru, then put the plug in. After that it was filled with good oil and a new filter and ran. Not only does it have a sever knock, when it get's warm it shuts off.

Either the car will go on eBay with a salvage title, or I will install a engine, get it inspected and sell it. Since the purpose of purchase was to buy for resale. Charles

Most likely not:

It took the point of least resistance, and went into the lifter valley, then the oil pan, the pump and finally the oil filter!

Stop leaks are a gamble to use, and if they do work are a back yard Band-Aid fix at best. One good high speed run on the highway can undo the seal, put the coolant in the crank case and ruin an otherwise good engine.

I'm not a gambler, are you?

Refinish King

As I meantioned earlier....Bars leak is used by the big 3 right from the factory as I am told by the company themselves....There was no coolent in the oil and it was a very small leak from the rear corners of the rear of the intake. I already put it in and ran the car for an hour...the leak seemed to have stopped and the oil is fine....I am getting differing opinions on this stuff...I used the c-16 bars leak that comes in the silver bottle, not the pellets...GM get's the pellest from bars leak company themselves from what I understand....I have the 3800 series 2 motor as mentioned....

More info,

The company claims it will prevent and stop internal leaks as well....

Check out their FAQ site ....

Also here is an e-mail I sent and their reply: (note my message is last and their reply is first)

((No, we have been in business since 1947 and will not harm your system in anyway. We are a factory installed product in the big three car manufactures also. I cant speak for other stop leaks, but ours is safe and effective.

Shelly Gascoigne Sales and Marketing Coordinator snipped-for-privacy@barsproducts.com BAR'S PRODUCTS BAR'S LEAKS SPLATT Stiction BAR'S XTREME

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:54 PM To: snipped-for-privacy@barsproducts.com Subject: Re: bars leak and dexcool

I have been doing some research and was told that bars leak will clog up the radiator and gum up the water pump and heater core among other things...is this true?

Also called GM and they finally admitted they put the pellets in their 3800 V-6's as a "preventative" BRAND NEW, RIGHT FROM THE FACTORY, when I questioned what cars, they told me all 3800 V-6's from 2000 to 2003......I had to LITTERALLY P-R-Y this out of them and they finally admitted they get this stuff from a company in Michigan. How ironic that Bars Leak Corporation is located in Holly Michigan which is located near Detroit of all places. THE BIG 3 ARE A PACK OF LIARS!

I also spoke with a master mechanic that has been in busines for 35 years and has an excellent reputation for being good, fair and honest and he told me that one bottle will not harm in any way. In fact it will help, but anything beyond that can do damage to the heater core but he said I would have to constantly be adding it all the time to do this.

Just thought I would pass on the info i have accumulated since my origanial post.

I am selling this car anyway and refuse to spend the 500 or so it takes to fix the problem only to have it go again in another 30,000 miles like they usually do.....the thing I can't figure out is why the hell GM redesigned the gasket for the 3.1 and the 3.4 but not the 3800.......when i questioned them on this they played dumb, as usual.......

OH, AND THEIR TRUCKS ARE PLAGUED BY PISTON SLAP WHICH OF COURSE THEY DENY BEING A PROBLEM ALSO.

Then the big 3 crybabies wonder why the U.S public is going for the foreign cars......they had years and years to build a quality product, which I used to swear by in the past, but did they ?.......well maybe back in the sixties and seventies but all they put out now is junk........

I am done with GM, Ford and chrysler....I have had enough expensive headaches.......Toyota, Honda or Nissan here I come!

GM may get the "recipe" from the Bars Leak, but it certainly isn't in the same form. Again, if you are worried, just go to a dealership and grab a card of GM sealing tabs. You get

It was never intended to repair a leak that is already in the later stages. It was intended to stop minor seepage that "might" happen with newer engines. In other words, it's a really poor idea to attempt to repair a leak with this product, but a good product to use once everything is in good working order. So in your case, you might be taking a chance.

Ian

Wait till you get Toyotaitis:

Gum and sludge in the crank case, brake problems, with numerous TSB's to fix.

Nissan: So problem plagued, that they were near bankruptcy and the french bought a major interest in them. We all know what happens when the french get mixed up with a car company?

Look at AMC, the old American Big fourth car company?

Honda: another joke, Cylinder heads cracking like every other manufacturer. Cams seizing in the heads, transmission problems, alignment problems and uneven and even cupped tire wear.

You think that s*it is any better, move the f*ck to Japan, learn to say: "Ahshoe"

Refinish King

Hi Ian:

I did a little research, because I was a dedicated Bars Leak user for close to 30 years. It seems that the stop leaks that cause radiator and heater blockage are: Aluminum flakes and the copper recipe.

The copper recipe from Advanced and a lot of other stores, guaranteed to fix cracked heads and bad head gaskets, I've changed radiators and heater cores damaged. by customers using more than one can, so that stuff works, but unfortunately. In the wrong place.

Refinish King

Yeah...that stuff is nasty....there is a Caddy engineer over on one of the Cadillac forums that recommends "not" using that style of Bars Leak. Of course, I'm sure you know that the GM stuff is simply an organic product.. you can read the ingredients on the back of the package.

Ian

Ian: I have done over 60 engines that were killed do to stop leak. I have yet to have a customer admit to using the GM pellets. They have all used the standard powdered or liquid stop leak formula's by aftermarket companies.

Most of these engines died from over heating. Clogged radiators, clogged coolant passages, thermostats clogged to the point of not working. I have never asked them how much of a product they have used.

People for the most part are Idiots, and Auto Parts stores (not parts houses) have idiots behind the counter whose job it is to sell as much snake-oil as auto parts. Stuff like "Motor Hunny" which is straight 50 weight motor oil to cure bad valve stem seals, Stop Leak products for every type of leak, Gasket Sealer for gaskets that are supposed to be installed dry.

No matter if GM uses pellets to "seal" engines or not, If I did that my customers would not tolerate it. I put an engine together, and it weeps. I'm pulling it back out, finding the cause and fixing it out of my pocket. Band-aide fixes are not an option outside of dealerships. Charles

Read between the lines guys - all he wants to know is if the $10 he spends on Barrs will stop the leak long enough so that the guy he sells the car to won't notice it during the inspection. The only thing he cares about is losing the $10 for the stop leak if it doesen't work.

Ted

This is an extreme simplification. There are really 2 issues here and your smooshing them together.

The first issue is whether the product actually does what it claims - stops leaks.

The second issue is whether the product is harmful to the engine.

I won't attempt to debate you as to whether the product is harmful to the engine. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But as for whether the product stops leaks - that is a different story.

GM and the owner of the car have two very different definitions of "stops leaks"

GM wants the leaking seal to stop leaking for as long as the car is still under warranty.

The owner of the car wants the leaking seal repaired to the point that it's longevity is the same as all other seals in the engine - in short, they want it brought to the level of sealing ability that it is intended to have by the engine designers.

GM uses the stop leak precisely because they have found that statistically, there's a slightly lower percentage of returns on these engines during the warranty period when they use it. Since the stuff costs the factory a few cents a pellet, it saves GM money. Therefore, the product meets GM's definition of "stops leaks"

But, GM doesen't care what happens to the engine after it goes past the warranty period. And an endorsement of this stuff by GM says nothing as to whether this works for the long term or not. They have no interest in whether or not it works for the long term.

In essense stop leak seals a gap in a sealing surface by going into it and forming a plug. So, a slightly warped mating surface, or two gasketed mating surfaces that wern't put together with proper compression, or a too thin or flawed gasket, start leaking, the stop leak replaces what is supposed to be there - gasket material, gasket sealer, or the metal of the parts itself. But to whitewash what is going on and convey the impression that this is just as good as an actual gasket, gasket sealer, or metal of the part, is just plain wrong. The flaw that created the leak to start with is still there, the seal is weaker than what is supposed to be there, and it's going to fail faster than what was supposed to be there. So the engine may make it to 90,000 miles instead of 20,000 - that is great for GM because it allows them to defer the real repair that needs to be made - correction of the flaw - until such time as GM is no longer responsible for paying for it. But it sucks for the owner of the car. And it certainly does not meet the owners definition of "stops leaks" unless your like our friend here who just wants it stopped long enough for a quick sale.

You had this right, you should have stopped there. It's a poor idea, period.

Engines with sealing surfaces in them that were correctly machined, gasketed, sealed and assembled do not need this in their cooling systems. If there's a flawed seal, or improperly assembled seal, then you are going to get seepage. If the seal isn't repaired, then it's going to get worse and go into the "later stages" A proper repair means the seal then becomes in spec with the design, (or better) in which case it's as good as a seal that never failed. If that is done the longevity of the repaired seal then becomes the same as all other seals in the engine. A hack repair merely extends the longevity of the repaired seal for somewhat, it does not address the root cause of the failure.

Ted