GM and Chrysler

GM & Chrysler will be lucky if they survive. Forget about being #1 or #2 or #3 or #4 or #5....

While chapter 11 is neccessary for the monsterous amount of debt and fantacy obligations built up over the years, there are still hurtles for the new found companies.

1) Brand damage, you can't go around not paying your bills and welching off the taxpayer and expect the brand to be worth a tinkerbells cold crap. Many loyal customers are gone for a lifetime. 2) Quality, stuff like plastic manifolds make GM cars a joke for quality. Pissed off even more customers with $1600 fixes. I wonder whose brainchild that was? Lets face it, GM made good vehicles, once upon a time. But not now. 3) Culture, the cause of GM & Chrysler still has the loser entitlement culture abet in smaller numbers. They most likely will be back in bankrupt mode inside of 3 years even with a clean slate. Even the unions state they will dump the stock ASAP if diluted in a deal.

When all is said and done, the new GM will be a small remarketer for parts of existing autos, producing a few autos but nothing like before. GM will exit the truck business, scrap lots of lines not making money and be down to

2-4 models they can make money on if they really clean up their act.

HLS, you should know that GM does build products the American people want to buy. In fact, GM posted it's smallest sales decline of the year (along with Ford, and Honda) in April '09. GM and Ford sales dropped around 33 percent, while Toyota's sales tumbled 41.9 percent. Everyone build good products right now. Unfortunately, not many can afford them.

I agree with you here, FWIW. My parents always had GM vehicles so that's the route I went as well all in all, we've done very well.

64 Biscayne 140k miles 67 Bel Air wagon 140k miles 73 Impala 150k miles 76 Chevette 140k miles 81 Chevette 160k miles 84 Celebrity sold at 80k miles 86 Chevette 140k miles 88 Olds Delta 88 presently 105k miles 91 Cavalier 105k miles (T-boned)

Me:

92 Cavalier sold at 105k miles 96 Beretta traded in at 33k miles 96 Corvette presently 16k miles 96 Beretta presently 140k miles

With the exception of those sold, traded or wrecked, these cars were all given minimal maintenance by my father, and always ended their lives driven very hard by one of 3 teenage boys for the last few k miles.

I maintain my cars much better, and am quite happy with the four I've had.

I've gotten as mad at GM as anyone over their gasket problems, plastic plenums, etc. but the fact remains that they've been really good cars.

I'd buy another GM as soon as my current Beretta finally dies, but GM has gotten me really apprehensive with their seemingly less than honest behavior lately.

My biggest problem is unrelated, though. I made the mistake of wasting loads of time and money getting a BS in electrical engineering. Now those jobs have all gone overseas.

Also, my mother has had a few bouts with cancer and now has macular degeneration so I must care for her so I can't work. (I accept no assistance from the government for the record).

I'd probably go with another GM if the Beretta dies, as I said, but cost is becoming an increasingly big issue for me, as I believe it has and will continue to grow for others as well.

Just my thoughts....

Even though they are taxpayer subsidized.

GM may be building good products now, but this has not been the case for very long. Just a few years....and this is hard to overcome.

If GM built cars that Americans wanted to buy, they would have the preponderance of market share...but they dont. They have lost market share..

I bought a new car last week. I really wish I could have trusted GM, but I couldnt.

They have screwed me too many times.

Maybe in the future.

I totally agree. I wouldn't buy anything but a GM, but I'll admit when they screw up, and with the gasket and plenum problems, they seriously screwed up.

UNfortunatley, it seems everything is going overseas.

You have my sympathies. I have lost family members to cancer, and I find it quote commendable that you are caring for her.

IMHO, you're thoughts are very right.

We both know we aren't going to agree on this, so I'm not going to get into BitchFestMay2009.

Of course they have lost market share. How many companies sell vehicles in the USA compared to years ago? My point is, GM still outsells every other brand. You know I respect you HLS, but I just can't stand it when people say "If GM were to build products American's want to buy". They sell more vehicles then any other manufacture in the USA, and that is a fact.

This question has nothing to do with GM, and it's just out of curiosity (I read your posts asking about different models of vehicles), but what did you end up buying?

It is every American's right to purchase what they wish, and I don't deny that. I wish you luck with your new purchase.

Camry Solara

Stating GM outsells everyone is like stating you won a cross country running race after having someone drive you half way. I think they call it cheating.

If GM removed taxpayer subsidies and priced them to break even how many would they have sold?

Being #1 in auto sales is meaningless unless it is sustainable without the pocket picking free debt ride.

"80 Knight" wrote in news:SrKdnchNI47_vpPXnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

What will you and mikey do when the gone out of business sale finally registers with you two big BS artist.

I BS no one, and only use facts. To a Google search, and you will see that what I said above, is true. But, you probably won't, as that would take effort.

Not everyone.. I think Chrysler has been building shit right up to the last.

Few people want to buy GM and Chrysler now because of the unknowns the future brings. GM has certainly had an improvement in attitude about quality, both by GM itself and by the customer.

When the national news implied a "fire sale" at Chrysler dealers, I looked into the Chrysler PT Cruiser.

But first, a check at EDMUNDS car reports. The PT cruiser.... dated design and features, 21 mpg out of a 4 banger engine, Sounds like a car they designed, then stopped improving. Then, the base price..... $21 GRAND $

It might have sold at half the price, but when you look at the competition in that price range, it's easy to see why Chrysler's in trouble.

It will be 1/2 price by fall, maybe less. While the dealers are trying to keep their inventory low, it is so they don't get stuck too bad. Behind that, there are tons of unsold all around. Usually in a field somewhere as the dealers didn't buy them.

Most will get auctioned off.

But at only 21 MPG, why not buy a real truck like a F150. Nearly as good milleage, big V8 for lots of power and reliability and they will likely be in business for awhile yet.

But if someone were to insist on a GM or Chrysler, I would be looking for

40% off of MSRP, warranty in writing backed by the government; cash and GOOD credit is king. And there is not a shortage of inventory, just qualified buyers are scarce. Will be 50% off by fall.

Is that the 2-door convertible? How do you like it?

I've never been a huge Chrysler fan (besides classic MOPAR), but the last two Chryslers I drove for extended periods of time (a PT Cruiser, and a Jeep Grand Cherokee), I actually liked a lot. They were both rentals, but I liked them. The PT Cruiser is kind of like the Pontiac Aztec (you have to really like the looks to be happy with it), but I found it wasn't nearly as bad on gas as people had told me, and it was actually comfortable to drive. The Jeep, I really liked, and even with the lower engine model (compared to the Hemi in other Jeeps), it was quite powerful, and also wasn't nearly as bad on gas as everyone had said. But, like I said, these were rentals, and I only had them for 2 weeks or so at a time.

To quote a famous movie, "the future is not set". We shall see what we shall see.

Never trust Edmunds. Try reading actual reviews of the vehicle, and, oh I don't know, maybe the products fu**ing website. For starters, a base PT Cruiser starts at $18,720, and the base engine get's 26 MPG on the highway, not 21. As for the dated design, it's supposed to look like something from

50 years ago, what the hell do you expect?

And with American's like you, it's easy to see why the country is in trouble.

Indeed they did. I presume they let the bean counters get ahead of the engineers. Too much of that everywhere in this country lately, IMHO.

I fear you are spot on regarding that. It really is getting scary lately.

Many thanks for the kind words. They mean a lot to me. As an adult I realized just how much my parents sacrificed for their three sons, and I couldn't imagine turning my back on my mother in her time of need. Putting my life on hold is the least I can do to help her.

Again, many thanks.

One thought about GM did cross my mind, though. I can tell you the one thing I will NEVER do is buy one of their cars that is imported from China.

I find it sad and a bit disgusting that they have the nerve to even consider doing that.

I fully realize that we're in a global economy nowadays, and if they don't do that and all other manufacturers do, then GM will not survive.

I have no problems with anyone else buying the car they believe is the best value for them. I know money is tight and just because a car is manufactured in the USA doesn't mean it is the best fit for everyone.

However, I seem to be in the minority these days. I'm a US citizen and I would like to see the USA not only survive, but thrive.

A great uncle of mine was killed in WWI. Two others fought there and returned home. My mother's cousin was killed in the Battle of the Bulge in WWII, and my father served in the Pacific in WWII. I also had an uncle who was a B-29 instructor pilot during WWII.

While I have not been in the military, I'd still like to do what little I can to support this country so that the service and sacrifice of those mentioned above (and countless others) was not in vain.

Whenever I am shopping for tools, I look for "Made In the USA." Surprisingly, it is out there if you look hard enough. I always shell out the extra $$ for it if I feel it is a better quality product. I find that almost always it is.

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur, but I have this crazy feeling that we should look out for one another here rather than selling out to the lowest bidder. If you look only at the short term, you will lose every time in the long term.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Rick

At no time did I say I was a Bush Republican !!

You don't like the message, so you attack the messenger ?

My main point was that; The Cruiser was overpriced, and that in that price range, there's alot better choices. there's a helluva lot better