I agree with you that the new "GTO" would have sold better as a mildly exotic Holden. Get Paul Hogan to do some commercials and sales would have been healthy. They also needed to do something about trunk space loss to the gas tank relocation.
I drove one the first year it came out (6-sp) and it was an excellent sports coupe...even with only 350 hp. With the 2nd year 400hp -- Holy Cow! Go visit the English Top Gear web site and see what a blast they had with the Brit version of the 400 hp version Holden.
Would have bought one except for the poor rear seta access and tiny trunk (plus fear of bad resale). Bought a BMW 330i instead. Fellow at the local Home Depot owns one and I see it in their lot frequently and every time I admire how tasteful and subtle its design is - that alone precludes it EVER being a GTO.
It never was nor could it ever be a Goat. GM demonstrated total misunderstanding of marketing in trying to pretend it was one. Just stupid. Nothing less. Someone should be fired for that level of dumb.
You are confusing tasteful with bland. And if you think it was a bland car, you should go drive one. It's the best car GM sells in this country (except for Corvette). That's if you like to drive and don't need "hey look at me" styling.
No one, no one would ever pay $30,000 for any Cavalier. Ever. And there's no way they could have sold it for less and made any money. It is an expensive, higher end car, no Cavalier, no Malibu, no Grand Am (ever notice how close Grand Am is to Grand Ma?), no etc. Closest GM competitor is the CTS and the GTO looks better, is better built, and goes far faster.
They should have sold it as a Holden semi-exotic. Trouble with that is there is no reason the Pontiac sales force would have been competent to sell it. They probably did think it's a Grand Am or some other Pontiac crap on steroids. Maybe they should have sold it through Saab shops. Or alongside the Corvette.
Remember the Schwab ad of a couple of years ago in which an unnamed competing broker exhorts the salespeople to "Put some lipstick on this pig and sell it!" ??????
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The GTO wasn't really a pig, but it certainly wasn't the car it pretended to be. It was an obscure Australian Holden with Pontiac lipstick on it.
Well, I have to put in my .02, since it appears that none of you that are replying own a '04-'06 GTO. Well, I do own one, and while flames will be gladly accepted, please read before anonymously calling me everything under the sun.
First, as to the looks, my PBM '05 gets MORE than its fair share of admiring glances. It does NOT and never did look like a Cavalier on steriods. Inane analogy that some car mag "guru" coined because they had to criticize it due to the low advertising revenue paid by Pontiac which, of course, didn't warrant a more positive writeup. Unfortunately the stupid lemmings that read and follow those rags took that as gospel and ignorantly carried the banner for them. I say ignorantly simply because until you have driven one, you are ignorant as to the car and its performance. Additionally, what's up with Ford and Chrysler using retro styling? Seems to me that perhaps they have run out of original ideas. I believe that once these cars have run the table on buyers that wish to relive their youth, then both automakers will be stuck with 90 day supplies on their lots. It happened with the retro T'Bird. Unfortunately, history seems to be ready to repeat itself. Secondly, I will agree that GM dropped the ball on this car. Poor to no advertising was certainly a factor in its slow sales. However, slow is a relative thing. For example, in So. Cal' this car is at a ten day supply rate on dealer lots. The same cannot be said for many so called "performance" vehicles from Germany or Japan. Finally, find me a car from either of the aforementioned countries that has
400 HP, (a conservative rating BTW), and the build quality that this car has at $33K. Quite frankly, you won't. And don't tell me about the BMW M series, as they are way overpriced in addition to being rolling junk. Don't believe me, check the latest ratings from JD Power on German cars, and for that matter Nissan as well. I think you'll get the picture. This car is top-notch. From its world class interior to the previously touted performance, the GTO is an exceptional vehicle. GM is making a mistake in letting it go. It certainly needs a followup with the new Camaro coming. And at the risk of repeating myself, don't knock it until you try it.
Well... that's the thing about taste. Everyone's is different; and I think that *most* people looking for a car with the performance of the GTO want to have a car that will have an immediate visual impact. In other words, they buy the car because they want to be noticed in it. The GTO does not have that impact; it's a very subtle car. Good looking, but subtle. It also shares a lot of styling cues with some pretty cheap, crappy GM cars. Personally I don't have a problem with that; I want a car for how it drives and if it's a Q-ship, so much the better. But most people don't share that opinion.
I concur that GM is pulling a big bonehead move (bigger than they already did by not promoting the GTO in the first place) by pulling the plug on one of their finest vehicles. The only issue I have with it, other than the lack of promotion, is the price. It's simply out of reach for me to consider buying one new, and my salary is significantly higher than the national average. If they could have brought it in about $10K cheaper I bet it would have sold like mad (and I might be driving one.) Now what that would have done to its performance, I don't know. But in high cost of living areas like DC, unless you are making a buttload of money, $35-40K is too much to pay for a car. (now that doesn't stop some people from spending that much, but I prefer to not have those big monthly bills...)
I wonder if it wouldn't have made sense instead of just bringing over the GTO as a "special" if it wouldn't have been more economical to offer a six-cylinder version of the same chassis as a regular mid-sized car and the GTO as a higher trim level, then it might have been economically feasible to produce it here, GM would have better offerings, and economies of scale on the common parts would have brought the price down. But of course what do I know, people bought Tauruses for years... I'm just a car guy, not a product planner
JD powers, isn't that the same place that took into account people's complaint about the hummer's fuel thirst ?
no, they have to. 4 billion dollar in losses is why. The GTO doesn't bring in any money.. cutting it is the ONLY solution. no matter how nice or good a car is or is perceived to be, if it doesn't bring in money it's not much good. The niche market cars (think Ford GT) are just marketing tricks. "hey look at what we can build, now go buy a fusion"
I don't recall anybody saying that trying to sell the Holden coupe as a GTO was a good idea. Everyone (outside of GM, anyway) was pretty darned negative to dead set against the idea.
They were right, of course, and GM was wrong, of course.
GM desparately needs some ex-Toyota managers. Desparately.
I don't own one (often wish I did), but did test drive one the first year they were out (6-sp) and I completely agree with you that it is a fine car and looks nothing like a Cavalier. I cannot imagine anyone who has actually driven one not liking it. The styling is tasteful and inobrusive (a good thing with 400 hp on tap), but way too tasteful to bear a GTO name-plate. And there is the rub; if GM had fixed the small trunk problem and sold it as what it is with a bit of advertising it would be a successful, low volume, M3-eater. The people at Top Gear in England just love the thing and they have plenty more cars to compare it with than are sold here. It's failure here is just total GM management stupidy caused.
Now, having said that, you should not bad mouth the M3. It is not the most reliable thing on the road, but it is the best ultra-high performance coupe out there and held in high by anyone who knows anything about high performance cars. Dissing the M3 just degrades your own credibility. I personally wish that M3's were not held in such high regrad as I would be driving one if the used ones would just depreciate like a normal car. They hold their value like crazy and you can't touch evn a good early 2000's one for less than $35,000...and it may have sold for $45,000 new.
I own a 2005 and I love it!!!!. Red with red interior. I got the "sport appearance package" which helped the appearance tremendously, plus the mufflers they put on as a part of the package really help the sound - not that it really needed any help in the first place. The interior is a dream and the fit and finish inside and outside is excellent.
And 400hp? Until you have experienced it, you really can't imagine what it is like. Turn off the Traction Control and floor it. Feel your self being pushed back into the seat and watch the front end come up. Check the rear view mirror and watch the guy driving the Mustang in the next lane piss his pants as you leave him behind like he was tied to a stump. ((^:
I would have liked to see it retro to the 66/67 style - the best looking GTO ever- but this one is not bad. I bought my Firebird Formula Convertible new in '97 and traded it in on this one. Maybe Pontiac will have come to their senses and fielded a decent replacement in 6 or 7 years when I will probably start thinking about trading in this one.
We drove one and loved it. The interior is sumptious and very comfortable for the front passengers and it's enormous fun to drive. The tiny trunk and the near-useless back seats, though, ultimately lead us to get another car. If we weren't ever planning to take a trip with luggage in it, a GTO would be in the driveway now! If we were in the market for 2 brand-new cars, a GTO would be a perfect second car.
uhm, they didn't make the M3's (the current one) until 2001.
2002's now go for 38 (immaculate) to 34 ish . Ever driven an M3 with smg on a road track ? Good luck keeping up with the GTO. Even straight line you'll have a hard time beating 60ms upshifts. I guess you get what you pay for. (and what it's worth to you)
Maybe a barebones one. I have yet to see abarebones
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