GM Styling...the real Killer

Sounds like you need to find a venture capitalist to help you execute your styling concepts. Besides, GM still has an extra division or two to give up before they really need to get serious. Personally, I can't speak about styling. Give me a box that carries things, gets fair mileage, and lasts a long time and I am happy.

At the end of the day, you hit the nail on the head. I believe the majority of NEW car buyers ( those who GM courts) feel the same way. I know I do. We have my '93 Eldo which is a money pit, my wife's '93 Camry which has cost just $100 in non-maintenance repairs since new, and my '04 Express van which has had two fluid leaks and has just 3500 miles on it. Unless I start hearing about GM owners doing the dance of joy in the streets over quality, my next car will be a Lexus.

Reliability is the backbone of any car manufacture. No one wants to sink >$20 grand into any product that do not give the best return on investment. Unless the product generates so much excitement that people are willing to put up with the repairs. Example: Harley Davidsons. I think GM has come a long way on delivering reliability, however, they have not started making exciting products yet. GM is not a car enthusiast company. Read all the review comparing the Pontiac Solstice to the Miata. Across the board, the Miata wins on handling and road feel. By that I don't mean just road grip. I mean driver feedback, responsiveness and precision. Even a GM spokesman admits that their car is different from the Miata in that it is designed to isolate the driver from the road. Their car is meant for a different type of customer.

I wonder what kind of customer would like a car that has no road feel what so ever. It would have to be a customer who hates driving, and go to great lengths to isolate himself from the road. What kind of car company would build a car that purposely don't give you feedback from the road because they want to isolate you from the driving experience. I have to conclude it must be a company that thinks of driving as painful, and don't want anything to remind you that you are driving a car. They themselves must also hate cars, and think of them as a necessary evil.

I don't care how the car looks. Given two cars with equal reliability, I would pick the car designed by people who are enthusiastic about their product. Every time I get into a GM car, I am reminded that driving is painful, so all road feel must be isolated from the driver. The seat feels like a living room couch. Everything are soft and have that isolated feel to it. Soon, you understand and share their pain in driving a cars. There is no excitement here. Ironically, GM spends millions trying to tell people that Pontiac is exciting, but then their product tells you that driving is painful.

Best GM can do is to put quality steering components in their cars, make the silky smooth. Design suspension unique for each car. Is just so pathetic to hear that the rear suspension from the Solstice comes from an SUV. Miata would never do that, because engineers who love driving designed that car. Once the new look of Solstice fades, is going to be another failure because simply there is no excitement there. Is like driving a car designed by a little old lady. It will get you there, but it treats you like a frail old man that can't stand any road feel in the steering wheel.

You got it. "GM - the car manufacturer for people who hate cars." That could well be their slogan...

nate

I don't think the styling in general is so bad (well except the Aztek).

The point the poster is making is don't make a box and then call it sleek. If you make a dependable car then its just as easy to wrap it in a nice package as oppossed to Blah Ze'. Thats what sells cars, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that.

Correct...not so bad...but not so good either.

GM= G--dam motoring!

It's more passable in a dark color such as BLACK. Then it would make it as a compact hearse.

Couldn't have said it better. There was a time when Pontiac was known for style. Who doesn't know a 67 GTO or a 73 GTO Judge. The image pops right to mind. Then again a Black Bandit. Don't even need to name the car (TA BY the way). A 69 Bonnie. Even a 59 Chieftan. It started with the 80's box-styling that was the big downward spin. Granted. They started to do something right in the early 90's. I think to myself that my old 95 GA GT has a sexier look to her than the generic ricer look of the new G6. Coming down the road can't tell a G6 from a GP now. I really liked the style of the coke-bottle GP also. The Aztek. OMG. What happened to the TransSport or even the Montana? And with GM in general I couldn't believe the "artistic" styling they came out with when the Aztek came out. Caddy's used to have class. Now they're a joke. And the style carried over to the trucks. I think Dodge and Ford had the right idea. Go retro. The new charger. The 300, the retro Mustang. The remade T=bird. Now imagine taking a 2004 GA and making some body mods to make it look like the 73 Judge. Or even the GP to the Judge. That'd be sweet, and doable. Taking a good name and plastering it on a piece of crap is still a piece of crap. Remember the last incarnation of the GTO, that horrid little hatchback that looked almost like the Aztek.

That's a sad commentary on your linguistic ability, my short-peckered friend!

Well, that senstence made sense until you mentioned the Judge! That was possibly the fattest ugliest GM car ever made! Give your head a shake Cage-man!

Ewwww! That was a Gino car that most of us would rather forget! What's wrong with you?

Oh man! Another fat cow! How can a man with such poor taste even consider commenting on the topic of "Styling"???

No Cage-Man! It started with the Judge and its bulbous ilk!!!

What was that old Every Brothers tune? "Dream, Dream, Dream, Dream"!!!

Hey Cage-Man, a lot of people have poor eye sight. Don't let it get you down.

We finally agree on something Cage-Man!

Cage-Man! I agree with every comment here! Wow! We can get along!

Right again Cage-Man! They had a little class. Very little!

Cage-Man, you got that back asswards! Now they have class! Those sharp edges of the STS, CTS and SLR are hot!

The "new Charger" isn't worthy of carrying that name! It is an abomination! Cage-Man - a 4 door Charger!!! Get real!!! And that awful

Ya got me there Cage-Man - I have a soft spot for that sweet retro "Stang!

I really liked it too, but it was overpriced and didn't sell too well and was discontinued.

Oh puleeeeze Cage-Man! I just had a late dinner! The 2004 GA's & GP's both surpass that fat ladybug style of the Goat Judge! Give us all a break!

Yeh, it was called "The Judge"! Ugh!

I think you meant to say "service in exchange for that pile of sunk cost". Cars aren't investments.

I believe that's already taken.

snip

I agree a little bit of both of you. On the one hand, I think Cadillac styling is pretty successful in the market place. They have new products. Pontiac does not. Also, as the other argued, I can't see any difference between a Grand Am, a Grand Prix, and a Bonneville. As a result, two of them aren't built any more. They were superfluous.

GM has not been very interested in coming up with products for Pontiac and Buick. Cadillac, comparitively, is a priority. Pontiac is getting one real product, the solstice. It looks good, but of course I doubt they'll sell very many, because the 2-seater market is pretty small, and there are a bunch of cars in that market.

It's kind of amazing, really, that Pontiac managed to make it through the SUV years without an SUV. They have never had one. Even Buick has them. Cadillac has 4!

I live in San Diego - a densely populated urban environment where I find driving to be rather less than fun: lots of traffic and lots of rude drivers.

The majority of my driving is to and from work. I just want to accomplish that feat in 1. safety, and 2. comfort. I do not need to have a flashy, expensive, road-responsive automobile to sit in while grid-locked. I also do not want to feel the ruts in the road that my taxes should be paying to fix.

If I lived on some sparsely driven, curvy mountain road, then a Miata would be great fun, but down here in motoring hell, you bet I want to be isolated from the driving experience!

When my Lumina wears out I am going to get a new one.

Best Regards, Mark Buckles grid-locked in San Diego

Well he may have a short pecker, but you have a pecker for brain if you call the 69 Judge GTO ugly.

Yep you got a pecker for a brain alright.

Though you have a pecker for a brain you are right about the new Dodge Charger, its got the front end of a truck. And what asshole thought a sedan would look better than a coupe?

Agree again the T-bird was very very kewl, but not kewl enough for the price.

The Judge was indeed kewl, very kewl indeed.

Here ya go Gizmo, have another look! If you think this is sweet, then you'd be considered handsome! Link:

Well Gizmo, one of us has a pecker for a brain! You'd better have another look at the '69 Bonnie! Ugly as hell! Here's a link:

Man, your eyesight must be poor! Have another look:

Yeh! Like the ad says "All Rise" for the Judge!

I would love to get my hands on one of those old Bonnys.

'73 Judge? No such animal. The last year for the Judge was 1971. The '73 and '74 GTO's were corporate, compromised cars just like cars today. The last real GTO was 1972. The '74 GTO was nothing more than a Chebbie Nova with a shaker scoop. It was powered by a bottom of the line Pontiac 350 no less.

I'm afraid the days of GM being on top are a thing of the past. The decision to go cookie cutter "badge engineered" cars in 1982 was the biggest mistake. They basically killed off brand loyalty and competition between divisions. 20+ years later they are paying the price. Thank then GM CEO Roger Smith for that one(and countless others ...).