Re: 2500 for GM car

Vibe. Toyota engineering and dirvetrain. GM interior and finish. Best of both worlds and a cargo area that is like a small pickup truck.

You can get a new base model(manual transmission) for about $16,000 after rebates. That's $13,500 after your discount. Quite a nice car for that price.

Now, of course, you should wait until the 2006 models are out. Then they will give you another $1500-2000 off of the price in inceitives and rebates, dropping the price on a 2005 Vibe to about $11,000.

No way a Hyundai can beat this.

Another option would be to get the GT for about $19,000. Add in the rebates that will appear in September, and you are looking at about 13-14K for a car that will blow the doors off of anything else in its price range, thanks to your extra $2500 in dealer cash)

Hyundai does not take GM discounts. Might sound strange giving up the 2500 but must investigate further. Unimpressed with GM line.

True, but the publicized Toyota "oil-gelling" comes with this engine. Trust me, regular oil changes are ESSENTIAL to avoid cam and cam follower problems.

Rear suspension can also present problems with abnormal tire-wear caused by mis-alignment and or bad bushings.

Could use more engine, and some suspension softening, better placed heat ducting (at least up here in the Frozen North) and lessy crappy upholstery fabric. Still we liked the car for what it was (until an aggressive cab-driver wrote it off on us a couple of weeks ago... and my wife won't buy another, based on the extensive damage encountered in a relatively low-speed incident)

Like everything, you pays yer money and takes yer chances

Total BS. Toyota engineers the engine to tighter specs than normal, which means:

- Clean, NON RECYCLED, NON-DRUM-IN-THE-CEILING-OF-THE-SHOP, Oil.

- Change 3000 miles religiously. Not 3 months OR 3000 Miles. 3000 miles, no ifs, ands, or buts. Note - this is normal maintainence schedule for cars these days. The problems came from people going to Jiffy-Lube(recycled oil!) and waiting a typical slacker 5000+ miles, then whining that their engine can't handle the abuse that their old cars could.

Properly maintained, it will never have this problem. Toyota should, though, put a 2 months/2000 miles oil change schedule on their cars. That will mean people actually get them in at 3/3000 like normal.

That's very easy to check when you chance the oil every 2 months or so. Get a lifetime alignment package at your favorite tire store and checking bushings is almost idiot-proof.

That's why you get the 5 speed.

Well, what do you want for $13K? Name me a Hyundai for this price that gives you as much. Or just go spend $25K on a LeSabre and get no problems. You get what you pay for, and with a $2500 rebate, you'll not find a better under $15K GM vehicle in their entire lineup. Note, you CAN order it with leather seats in

2005 if you want. You might consider a 2006 with leather and literally 1-2 options to make it more comfortable.

Ah. That was YOU. Stop whining. Seriously. A 4000 pound car hits yours at 25mph... That's almost exactly like taking your car into a wall at 35-40mph in a crash test, due to the weight difference.

I had a rep at a contracting company who took his wife's toyota Camry to the Toyota dealer every 3000 miles for oil changes and still ended up with a dead engine at 30k and Toyota refused to warranty it denying any sludge problem.

I was merely sharing my observations after 3 years of ownership, thought somehow it might be valuable to someone. Certainly appreciate your attack.

C

I had to check myself...I had though for a moment that somehow I got into the Toyota group (which I'm not even subscribed to)! ;-)

Well, the fact is that GM makes crap at the low end, like Ford and Chrysler do, with a couple of notable exceptions. That the original poster mentioned Hyundai told me that he was looking for a budget ride. GM only makes one decent econobox these days, to be honest. Everything else is SUVs or large cars. Of course, Honda is taking a simmilar approach - their Civic isn't a compact car either.

The LeSabre is okay - decent all around but it feels heavy and "retired person". The Impala, based off of the same platform, sells for a bit less and has a bit better suspension. It's a better car to drive in and out of traffic, and IMO, looks better, too. With the 3.8 engine, it's a very nice midsize sedan.