Hybrid War: Honda vs Toyota

As I recall, that general aerodynamic shape is called the KAMM BACK. Audi A2, Insight (both), Prius -- all are in that family, along with many competition cars. Perhaps the horrific Pontiac Aztec, as well.

Ike

...hoping that Obama succeeds, but planning for an abysmal failure

Reply to
Ike
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The back/tail end, AFAIK, is what constitutes the Kamm back. Not the entire general shape.

Cathy

Reply to
Cathy F.

Yes, going to be interesting...

Cathy

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Reply to
Cathy F.

Well, no. There's a mathematical description of the shape, in which the butt truncation occurs where its cross-sectional area is equal to a specific percentage of the maximum cross section of the vehicle (about half, I think). It's the gestalt - the whole car.

Ike

Increasingly dubious that anyone, including Saint Barack, has any chance whatsoever of avoiding an economic collapse, rampant inflation, and sociological cataclysm.

Reply to
Ike

You know what...? Whichever it is technically, I do not think the original Insight resembled the new one, nor the Prius (which the new Insight does resemble - shape-wise). And... why would Honda even *want* the new Insight to resemble the old one, considering how that one fared? They need a fresh new start with this version, which I think they're getting.

Cathy

Reply to
Cathy F.

The Insight's electric motor provides 13 HP compared to 67 HP for the Prius. That has a major impact on city driving with regenerative braking less able to recover energy while stopping.

The original Insight used aluminum extensively to lower weight and improve crashworthiness.

-- Ron

Reply to
Ron Peterson

This weekend I rented a 2009 Prius (Basic) to validate what since now I have had only read about.

I drove the Prius on suburban roads and for a brief time I tested it out on a 6 lane super highway. At high speeds the cabin was a slightly noisy .

The joystick-parking button drive mode gave me strangest feeling of all the really big differences - rather than have a different position for each drive mode (R,N,D,P,B) the joystick position normally is in only one position and moving the joystick in a particular direction (up, down, right, left) selects a drive mode. However, in order for that drive mode to be selected the driver must press the brake pedal (like a manual transmission clutch) to change the drive mode - and to park one needs to press a park button. The motion was not easy for me and there was no positive feel with the joystick - so I found myself constantly looking at the LED display to determine if I was in the correct drive mode.

Using the energy display, it was fairly easy to get the Prius to average between 45 to 55 mpg. However, the energy displays position in the center of the car is somewhat distracting. I would have preferred an *energy* display next to speedometer display (one led for battery recharging, one led for gasoline engine drive on, one led for eletric engine drive on, and a real-time Led MPG gauge )

The Prius really shines when it comes to maximizing fuel efficiency. The hints that I had read on hypermiling with the Prius came in handy - e.g. tapping the brake pedals before an anticipate stop helps initiate the battery recharging earlier than if the computer were to initiate it. Also getting the car up to speed quickly and then letting go of the accelerator to cut off the gas engine and then slightly pressing the accelerator to try to the electric motor to maintain the speed on a downhill or flat road helps push up the MPGs. However, for sudden short stop-and-go traffic and driving uphill - the Prius mpg suffered (also I've read that the Prius MPG also suffers when it is really cold. ISTM the Prius can get over 50 mpg when it is driven in warm dry weather over relatively flat roads over long distances with few stops ). If one is driving in very agressive highway environment or short trips that are have a great deal of stop and go traffic - it would be difficult for a driver to modify their driving to get the optimum fuel efficiency from the 2009 Prius.

I found the fuel gauge is not a linear indicator of how much fuel is left in the Prius. The Prius is suppose to have a 11.9 gallon fuel *bladder" ; when the Prius is down to its last 3 gallons a low fuel gauge warning light is suppose to go on. The fuel gauge has 10 led segments when it was down to three led segments I filled it with 3 gallons - but it only raised the fuel gauge to

4 led segments - so then I filled it with 3 more gallons which then increase the fuel gauge setting to 10 led segments (initially when I got car from the rental office - the fuel gauge was at five led segments (1/2 way full marker) .

The sunlight had a tendency to washout the LCD screen it would have been easier to read if the LCD screen had some sun visor over top of it.

Not all of the buttons and dials on the dashboard and on the steering wheel don't light up (at night) making them harder to find them in the dark. . The volume dial and the seek button are too close to each other.

If the back of front passenger seat was shorter or if there was slightty more distant between the backseat and the front passenger seat one might be able to take off the front passenger seat head rest and push the back of the front passenger seat all the way down (like the honda fit) and fit a very long object in the passenger side... With the front passenger seat pushed forward all the way and the rear seats folded down - the maximum cargo length is abou 6.25 feet. maximum cargo height is about 2.4 feet and the maximum cargo width is from 3.25 to 4.feet.

The Prius isn't a very fast car - so merging into a superhighway is its weakest trait.

I've also read that the Prius' low rolling friction tires don't perform that well in rain and snow....

Lastly, the Prius as well as probably all non SUV hybrids doesn't have any towing capacity. The total weight of the driver, passengers, and cargo in the Prius (Vehicle Capacity Weight) is not suppose to be over 810 pounds.

Reply to
residualselfimage1999

Considering that there is only one drive mode, you're always in the correct drive mode. "B" is not a drive mode, and shouldn't be used except when driving on a long downhill. It took me less than an hour for that selector to become second nature.

One can change the display to something else, or even turn it off completely.

That's coming with the 2010 model. In fact, the center display screen will be gone completely unless you have the GPS navigation package.

True, but it still gets better mileage under those conditions than other cars do, because their mileage suffers as well.

As do all internal-combustion engines.

True, but the same is also true of other cars.

That's true of all gas gauges, but the bladder makes it more so with the Prius; the bladder is in only the US versions of the car, BTW.

The bladder will be gone with the 2010 model.

That's because the LCD screen is polarized for left-hand drive. It's been a sore point for many drivers who have right-and drive models.

Actually, all the ones on the steering wheel do, but they're not bright enough. The ones on the dash that don't light up are rarely used.

I've never had a problem with that; the car can go up to over 100 MPH, and I've found acceleration to be very brisk. It's not a muscle car, but it is peppy enough to not have any merge problems. I'm up to highway speed by the time I reach the end of the onramp, before I am in the merge lane.

Reply to
Michelle Steiner

Ummmmm.....actually, one needs press the brake pedal only to shift OUT of park.

Not sure what you THINK you had to do, but if you were pressing the brake pedal to shift from D to N or B, you were doing it wrong.

What else were you doing wrong?

I read that too--and yet, I went through 40K miles and two winters without a hint of problem. Go figure.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Not me. After the first 20K the tires were useless on ice and snow.

Reply to
Randy Gabelung

Why does it have to be a war? Under new mileage laws most vehicles will need hybrid technology next decade. Plus $5 - $10 gasoline WILL return in a matter of time. Better to work the bugs out now before get into high volumes.

Reply to
rick++

In message , rick++ writes

Here in the UK we already pay over £4 a gallon what's that in your money?

Reply to
Clive

At first glance, that would be $5.93, but a British gallon is larger than a US gallon so the UK price would be $5.00 per US gallon.

-- Ron

Reply to
Ron Peterson

A little under $6.00. Doesn't that higher tax pay for your health care too? If we added our health care costs to our gas costs we would be paying about $10.00 gallon right now.

Reply to
Randy Gabelung

When I backup from my driveway I switch from R to D without even touching my brake. It works very smoothly. Only if you switch from N or P to any drive mode you have to press the brake pedal, just like any other automatic. Thibaud

Reply to
Thibaud Taudin Chabot

It reached $8 last year before the Pound tumbled.

Reply to
rick++

I only had a 30 second review of the operations of the Prius from the rental agency - so initially what I knew was from the internet. Luckily - there was an owner's manual in glove compartment and I spent some time reading that on the second day I had the car. Renting a Prius was a great way to learn more about the it - I wish I could rent an Insight too ( but I don't think that opportunity will arise atleast not locally where I live).

I think user manual should have spent more time explaining their unique drive mode shifter - which I think was different enough from standard transmission systems to warrant more space in the user manual

However, even after reading the manual, I found that when I I was getting the car out of park I would occasionally shift it into drive when I meant to shift it into reverse. - and vice versa. It was only when I focus on the blue LED display that I could consistently do it right.

I'm not sure whether to believe or discount what I've been reading on the internet. However, it did freak me out and when it was raining last saturday - i didn't drive the prius.... I should have driven it in the rain maybe in a empty parking lot to test the braking in the rain - but I chickened out.

Reply to
residualselfimage1999

thanks for replying to my posting it was very informative.

hmm... considering that CVT and hybrids are the wave of the future - I hope all this becomes second nature to me soon...

True But -- I found myself constantly glancing at the energy display to see how I could drive more efficiently. I suppose as one racks up more experience with the Prius, there is no need to view energy display.

Even so - I really wish the Prius had an an accurate 3/4 1/2 and 1/4 mark indicators on the gasoline gauge.

Another cool software option might be an overall Consumption Screen that would show the consumption of gas and the mileage achieved since the last gas fill up so you could ask whether it was really worth it to fill up with premium gas?.

What didn't light up that I would have really like to have lite up at night: the power side mirror control buttons on the driver's door, the dial controlling the air vents (maybe green glow-in-the-dark plastic dials?) , the horn button on the steering wheel.

Where I would have liked led lights - inside the driver's center console compartment (to identify where that plug is ), I would have also like more preset buttons for the radio on the touch screen radio control panel -

If I had more time with the prius I would have like to study the climate control more.

my experience.... When merging into I-270 ( a maryland super highway) there was a dozen vehicles going at 65 miles per hour all driving with about three car lengths between each of them - When accelerating the Prius up to 60 to 65 miles per hour on the merging lane to parallel to the right lane it seems that some vehicles these were *speeding up* just to try to make it more difficult for the prius to merge into the right lane ..

The owner manual warned not to drive faster than 85mph which is the maximum speed the car's tires are rated for.

Reply to
residualselfimage1999

I've driven the Prius with the stock Goodyear Integrity tires in torrential rain at highway speeds, as well as winding secondary roads, and never had a problem.

Reply to
Mr. G

In article , ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com)=20 says... =20

The Prius shifter is neither a CVT nor a hybrid thing... it's a Prius=20 thing. =20

I use the energy/consumption display all the time, and it's no more of a=20 distraction than any other gauge. All it requires is an occasional=20 glance, which is no different than checking your mirrors.

The consumption screen shows MPG since last reset, and miles since last=20 fill-up. If you hit [Reset] at each fill-up, then you'll have your=20 overall MPG for the last tank.

Filling up with premium will not gain you anything, except for a lighter=20 wallet.=20

Reply to
Mr. G

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