98TJ Rotted freeze-plugs/Bad Antifreeze

Hmm. The last time I bought coolant was in 1999, when I charged the heating system in my house. I had two cases of no-name Walmart green antifreeze left over, and this has served me since then. I do not change or flush coolant. I never have, unless there was an obvious reason for it, like conspicuous lime deposits in the visible radiator tubes, or a leak. All of the leaks that I have serviced in this time have been from known, explicable causes, like a pebble in the radiator for example. I have always used a 50/50 mix of distilled or known clean, soft tap water, and ethylene glycol antifreeze. The coolant in my Jeep is still the same color and consistency as when it was new. It is ten years old. I knew a guy in 1976 with a 1952 GMC wrecker, that he claimed had the original factory antifreeze in it.

I gather from this thread that when my case of no-name Walmart runs out, things could change. At least I won't be required to change the

Prestone=AE All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant" which contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". This is probably a pH buffer, if you took college freshman chemistry. If you took the lab, you should know that any buffer can be overloaded, by adding enough base or acid. I don't know the composition of this stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down spontaneously too. I think that the black container, "Prestone=AE Heavy Duty Antifreeze/ Coolant", with its "blend of ethylene glycol and a specially formulated inhibitor package designed for heavy duty cooling system applications" might be a better buy. They seem to be saying that "ethylene glycol" =3D "heavy duty".

Earle

L=2EW. Hughes III (=DFill) wrote:

"Prestone=AE All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant" which contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". [.....] I don't know the composition of this stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down spontaneously too."

Earle, "Prestone All Makes All Models" contains Organic Acid Technology or "OAT." The factory service manual specifically states that you should never use this formula in a late model Jeep (Thanks for the info Billy).

If you read the pdf article I posted and the factory service manual, HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) G-05 formulation contains both traditional corrosion inhibitors found in the "Classic American Green" and also the newer OAT inhibitiors that are found in the newer Dexcool type formulations. The HOAT (G-05)contains an effective mixture of both inhibitors. Mixing OAT with "Classic American Green" leaves a mixture that is unable to properly pH buffer and protect metal surfaces in the engine.

Furthermore, the article also says that brass and copper are not well protected by OAT formulations. The block and head freeze plugs are the major leakage sources in my sitiuation, so I still suspect this new-fangled Dexcool was used at my last cooling system service.

Bill, The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January, so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this come out of a cooling system.

-Jim

I took Bill's comment on the time frame to reflect what often happens to us, especially those of us over 40 where because of hectic lives (or impending senility) time passes much faster than we expect.

Bill is also aware of the condition caused by failure to maintain vehicles from back in his Chevron days.

The DexCool caused brown sludge is different than back-in-the day rusty coolant. Back then you had good coverage for 2 years and then the protection slowly declined and the cooling system and block would begin to corrode and rust.

DexCool starts attacking the moment you pour it in. If you read the web posts you will find a large number of cooling system failures while the vehicle was still under warranty and although they advertise DexCool as a 5 year coolant they were denying claims over 3 years.

Looking back I wished I had taken some pix of what came out of my '02 and saved a sample in a glass jar. It was really nasty looking stuff that was much different in appearance to what I recall from my old gas station days.

Bill, The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January, so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this come out of a cooling system.

-Jim

On 24 Oct 2005 10:44:49 -0700 in , "Mood" graced the world with this thought:

Aside from other things said here... are you the original owner? I guess my point is, "Do you know where it's been?"

I mentioned the Prestone "patented Organic Acid Technology formula" because it comes in a yellow container, according to their web site, and that is what Bill says, that he has been using. According to the "Real ethylene glycol" comment, maybe be wants the black container stuff now. The (apparently) good stuff is now labelled "Prestone=AE Heavy Duty Antifreeze/Coolant" and comes in one gallon black plastic containers. "Heavy Duty" looks good to me, but still you have to remember that everything printed on the outside of a consumer package, is hype. I should know. I used to work for Microsoft.

By the way, if deer or other wildlife should happen to ingest any of the ethylene glycol that leaks out of your vehicle, try giving them beer, as an antidote. Ethylene glycol as a poison acts by being turned into insoluble crystals in the kidneys, and thereby damaging them, or eliminating kidney function entirely. Ethanol in beer displaces ethylene glycol from this process, and causes it to be voided as a liquid. If you get the beer to them early enough, you can save them. There should be no trouble getting deer or any other woodland critters to drink beer.

Earle

So what coolant is appropriate for a YJ (93, 4.0L)?

Not sure what people mean by 'late-model' in a jeep forum, it could be interpreted in a variety of ways (IE disc brakes / fuel injection / computer / cat conv / radial tires / heater / doors = late model jeep)

Sorry, I probably should have said late-r. I'm not sure what the 93 would take, but it seems what is most important is that you add what you already have in the system. I would ASSume this is "Classic American Green." Pouring new formula Prestone a.k.a Dexcool a.k.a OAT in your radiator might cause problems. That .pdf paper I linked has the details on what you should look for in the ingredients.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Do as you may but it is not a good practice.

I've read everything posted so far. I found this

Your '93 came with "American Green" and you can continue to use it safely as long as you flush and refill every 2 years

On the other hand you can spend an additional $1 a gallon and get the G-05 stuff that has better anti-corrosion capacity. Valvoline says it is good for 5 years but I may change it around 3.5 years (late fall '08 in my case).

why would I do this you are thinking....... The answer(s) are fairly simple.

1. I have had vehicles with cooling system problems and once the problems get bad they NEVER go away.

1. I prefer to prevent serious problems with small and regular applications of time and money than large applications of money and downtime cause by systems failures at inconvenient times

The "non-toxic" stuff that sells under the brand name Sierra is made with propylene glycol instead of ethylene glycol..

Sierra is also less effective as a coolant and while they claim that GM says it won't void the vehicle warranty it DOES NOT meet DC specs for newer cars.

Despite what the manufacturer of Peak and Sierra Antifreezes say (same company) no product made by them meets the current DC spec and their chemically composition contains what DC specifically warns against using. (OAT additives)

The anti-corrosion components is what gets used up. You probably added a radiator additive on a scheduled basis to your class 8's to supplement what was used up..

Maybe I'll change mine then. I can always use the old coolant, that I drain from the cars, for topping off and repairs to the home heating system! I probably have a fist-sized hole in my water pump now, for not changing the coolant every two years, if you believe everything that you read in manufacturers' propaganda.

I'm sticking with the green stuff. I still have a case from Walmart, that is six years old, somewhere.

Earle