Can't loose that ping

Unless they were referring to the fact that the ported head has the combustion chambers polished, I don't see where a ported head would eliminate pinging from an engine.

chris

no, the difference in porting from a 4.2 l head and a 4.0l head

http://m> > I'm curious, why would the MPI Kit (the only change from carb) cause

Approximately 10/12/03 16:03, c uttered for posterity:

Unless the current head has a nasty sharp spot on it that is getting heated up and causing the ping I don't see it either, unless the head has sharp enough edges to stick into the exhaust stream and detonate the next intake.

Hi Mike, thanks for that post. I should mention that I'm getting consistant ping from first through 5th gear no matter what the rpm. I haven't found a sweet spot. The only difference is I can't hear the ping at high speeds because of the wind and highway noises. I'm certian it's there though.

What does it say if ping is consistant, load (going up a hill) or no load. I should also mention I'm running 32x11.5 tires on my cj with stock gears (as far as I know).

also, I have manual brakes in my case.

also, this is not a new engine so I seriously doubt high compression in this case.

also, if the distributor was not functioning correctly, then when jeepsrus retarded the timing it would show on the computer wouldn't it. That is, set the timing back 6 degrees it should reflect that change in the computer (DRB II).

thanks,

bill

You are chasing a ghost....

What you are calling timing ping can't be timing ping unless something is seriously messed up. No head swap is going to fix that....

Timing ping only happens under load.....

Ummm how are the lifters or how is the crank?

Does the 'ping' happen at a certain frequency?

What I mean is if you put a timing light on it, does the ping happen in time with the light or is it slower?

You can even move the timing light from plug to plug and watch the flashes. If number 3 is in perfect time with the 'ping', you need a bottom end or crank job....

If in time with the light, that implies a main or rod bearing, if slower it implies a sticky lifter. An oil additive for sticky lifters can do it wonders then.

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:

Well, I took a closer look at the jeep this evening and I noticed both the pulse air openings from the previous setup still were not completely sealed, I could feel air coming from them. So I took a pipe wrench and turned them up till no air was coming out. At first I thought this fixed the problem but no. But now I think it's less consistant than before. That is, I'm hearing it stronger in second gear than any of the others. I need to put the windows back on the half door and get a better listening environment and make sure.

btw, I don't hear the ping when I'm at idle. Does that say anything?

How can I evaluate the crank or the lifters?

Thanks, Bill

connections

Reputations don't fix Jeeps. You've been to the guy several times with no results. The DRB could be telling him something that he's missing. Just because there are no fault codes doesn't mean nothing's wrong with a sensor.

The engine computer tells you how much it's advancing the timing, but has no idea where "initial" timing is. Has it been verified? Is it possible to put the crank sensor in the wrong position in relation to the crank pulley? Not talking distance from, but the clockwise relation.

Get another opinion.

I have a problem in principle with a garage that recommend one of those things... you might try a different mechanic... one that actually drives your jeep to try and determine what your sound actually is...

I still think you have a sticky lifter, it's a common problem and can be pretty random when it shows up (and under what circumstances)... also that ticking lifter sound is easily drowned out at higher revs... pinging is _louder_ at higher revs... So far you've said it makes the sound at idle, not at idle, under load, and "can't hear it but I think it's there" sounds pretty random. Honestly if you have pinging you'll know it... it sounds like your engine is going to come apart if you've got your foot down. You've already described the sounds as rhythmic (or at least you said you thought it might be belt related, which implies a rhythmic sound)... that lifter tick can sound a lot like an accessory or belt.

Now you sound like you are on to something....

You are describing something that is letting go under exhaust pressure.

A 'ping' in the engine happens under load. Revving it up in second gear is not a 'load' situation at all. My CJ7 will pull up to 4500 rpm and over 50 mph in second. No load involved, just torque and high exhaust pressure/back pressure.

Now if I put it in 5th gear at 60 mph and try to pass or climb a hill, I will get a timing 'ping' or knock. Drop back to 4th and the noise is gone.

If you are putting an engine under 'load', you are asking more of it than it can give in that gear. I think of it as any time I don't have an instant effect from my foot on the gas pedal. Like the 1st 1/3 of the way down the gas pedal movement translates into pull or acceleration but the last 2/3 of the gas pedal movement has no more effect on the acceleration.

I then figure I am 'loading' the engine up and that is when it is time to drop down a gear or I will get engine 'ping'.

For me on the highway with my 3.31 gears and 33" muds running in 4th gear at 65 mph turning 2300 rpm gives me a gas pedal to acceleration hit all the way down on the pedal. I get 19 US mpg driving like this.

If I use 5th gear at the same speeds. my rpm are down in the 1700's and I only have pull in the top 1/3 of the gas pedal, any more and I just drink gas, I don't accelerate because I am 'loading' the engine or bogging the engine as most people say.

I am thinking something like those exhaust tubes or the exhaust manifold is letting go in time to the pulses from the exhaust pressure under high power or rpm.

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:

Jeeps R Us has installed and tuned more Mopar fuel injection kits than any other shop in the country. Hesco often has them field test new products and modifications. Jeeps R Us knows what they are doing.

William,

You have received plenty of free advice and assistance from Jeeps R Us for your DIY install. Its time to pay them to trace your problem. The fix may involve larger injectors or an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. It may also involve re-indexing your distributor.

You might also ask them to have Pat Schuster (in Laguna Canyon) spend some time on your jeep. Pat has worked miracles on some problem jeeps, but like Larie Tales at Jeeps R Us, is a professional who deserves (and expects) to be paid for his expertise.

Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA

Robert,

I am NOT avoiding paying Larie for his time. He has not to date requested payment for his time.

Larie helped me with a couple of things when I was installing the kit. One was advice on the phone. Another was to look at one of his jeeps to see the way the power steering was positioned. The third thing was he gave me an indexing pin to position the distributor.

In appreciation I gave him a working T4 transmission which I didn't need.

I think that was fair and a good way to show my appreciation.

Due to my financial restrictions I could not pay 3500.00 plus tax for the fuel injection kit to be installed like you wanted. I'm sorry. Also, I told you from the git-go I wanted to be hands on with this. I think I did a pretty good job considering my work space and previous experience.

At this point, this issue is beyond my ability so, again, I do not mind paying someone to diagnosis it as long as they can do it correctly and as soon as Larie suggests this is the way to go I'll do it.

Robert, I take offense at your characterization of me. I consider myself a nice guy, sometimes overly nice guy, which I spend a lot of my time, for free, to help other people.

Thank you,

Bill

Wasn't meant to be a knock on them. Sometimes another set of eyeballs may see something previously missed.

Of course your point about paying them to find the problem is right on. You can't expect somebody to take time out from making a living because of your "financial restrictions". A nice guy will help with an easy fix for no charge, but for the tough ones that take time, the guy needs to get paid.

Why would you wait for him to suggest it? Maybe he's trying to be a nice guy and not come right out with it. Take the Jeep to him and ask him how much to get it checked out.

Has anybody that knows what they're doing, and knows what pinging is, even verified that what you hear is actually pinging? Judging from your other posts, there still seems to be some question.

bllsht, I appreciate your help and advice you have given me now and in the past as I do everyone here.

I guess "financial restrictions" is a poor choice of terms. Perhaps a better statement is I wanted to do it myself for the experience of working on and understanding my jeep plus save 2300.00: JeepsRUs charges 3500.00 for the kit installed plus tax: (3500.00 + 7.75% = .3771.25) I bought mine used and installed it for around 1200.00.

That's a difference of over 2500.00 with tax.

What would you do?

So I combined an experience I wanted to do with saving money. Not a crime, people do it every day which is what makes Home Depot and places like it do great business. For some reason this seems to bother Robert and I'm not sure why.

I have said before I have no problem paying for an diagnostic on my jeep which I'll be arranging tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Bill

I would take some of that savings and spend it on a proper diagnosis.

No offense was meant. You should be proud of your efforts. I am simply suggesting that it appears you have reached the limits of your ability to diagnose and solve the problems you are experiencing, and the tools you have at your disposal, and it is time to invest some of your DIY savings on the services of a professional.

Larie Tales is one of the kindest and most generous people you will ever meet. It would be out of character for him to demand money from someone who presents himself as "financially restricted" and in need of a favor. However, it is clear that you need more than a favor or a simple timing adjustment to solve your pinging issues.

Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA

Ok, no harm, no foul. Sometimes it difficult to understand a take from the pc.

thanks,

Bill