CJ7 starter / solenoid

Use a jumper cable to momentarily connect the starter to the positive on the battery. If the engine cranks normally then suspect the solenoid.

Solenoids do actually die. I had to replace the one in my 87 a few months ago.

I-6, not V-6. Inline, not v-formation.

Take the starter back to the store. Most chain parts retailers will test your starter, free, and bad rebuilt parts are not uncommon. If they can't test it, pull the starter, chain it down or chuck it in a vice so it won't run away from you. Connect a set of jumpers to a battery, clamp the [+] to the cable post on the starter. Hit the case with the [-] clamp, and watch for the Bendix drive (the bit with the gear teath on it) when it slides out to the tail of the starter. If it doesn't move the starter's NG.

If the above tests out OK, replace the relay on the fender. You might be passing enough juice to fire the starter motor but not enough to pull in the Bendix.

Your 'inline' 258 has a relay and a bendex, no kicker solenoid like a GM would have.

If you have a V shaped engine, my fix below isn't likely valid and you really need to find out what engine is in there.....

You should be able to 'bench test' the new or old starter using booster cables. I hold the starter down with my foot and hook up the positive connection to the battery positive, then take the other booster cable from the battery negative and touch the starter case. The starter will spin up and the gear will shoot out to the end. If the gear doesn't shoot out, the starter is bad or you have a really low battery.

The 'solenoid' is on the fender and costs less than ten bucks. It does get bad connections that usually just result in a click, not the starter spinning free although it can happen with a dirty connection. It can be cleaned or replaced.

Mike

" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote:

It took two Bosch and one Champion starter to finally get a rebuilt that started my 81 CJ, try another rebuilt.

Yes, I realize that. It's a 6 cylinder, and the manual refers to it as a V6, I'm assuming they do because it's a 6 valve engine, no the placement of the cylinders.

Ok, so get this. I get the new relay/solenoid, install it, nothing. Huh. Reinstall the old, same deal. Try bypassing the solenoid, nothing on the starter (old starter). Plenty of amps in the battery to turn it over. Try bench testing the old starter; nothing. Try bench testing the new starter, nothing. What gives? They both spun last night when I was having the difficulty, now I try and bench test them and they won't go? New or old? Yes, I hooked it up correctly with the pos / neg. Weird. If I have the ignition in the acc position (full counterclockwise) with the old solenoid, I get some juice to the radio, but nothing else. No lights, no nothing else. It;s the original harness, and up until I had difficulty, no problemo. Everything worked. Now, nada. Any ideas, hints, etc? I am going to return both the solenoid and the starter, but dagumit, wish I knew the answer. I checked the fuse blck, all fuses are fine. If it were the ignition, I assume bypassing the solenoid would turn the engine over? Help please before I have to drag it down the road to my repair guy.

Thanks again!

You are either doing something radically wrong or there is something radically wrong....

For starters you have the wrong 'book'. There is no V involved in the

From all the strange symptoms I would have to figure you have to have a dead battery connection between the cable clamp and the battery post. Nothing else makes any sense.

I would be removing the battery cable clamps and giving them a good clean, then I would be at least checking the battery with a meter to see how dead it now is.

Don't forget the solenoid has to be grounded to turn on and on which side you took the old wires off from. There should be at least 3 loop connectors on the solenoid battery side post and only one on the starter side with 2 small wires on the small posts.

Mike

" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote:

But it isn't a 6 valve engine either. It's a 12 valve engine.

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

I'm curious, what manual do you have that does that?

OK, back up a bit. How do you know you've plenty of amps at the battery? How did you test it? How do you know that current is getting to the ends of the cables? I'm not jumping on you, I'm trying to get all the details straight in my head. I've got the same setup as you: `79 CJ, 258.

How did you connect them up? Did you use jumper cables directly on battery posts or did you clamp them onto the vehicle's battery terminal clamps? I ask because there could be enough crud between the post and the clamp to allow enough juice for, say, the radio but not enough to power up a high-amp device like a starter motor. If you tried to test it with a battery charger there's likely not enough power available to turn the motor over.

Yep. There's six connections that you need to physically remove, clean and replace: Each battery post clamp and the lug end of each of those two cables, plus the lug ends of the jumper that runs to the starter.

The negative cable runs to a bolt on the engine block, this ensures there's enough ampacity on the ground side to power the starter. If the negative cable attaches anywhere else move it to the proper place, a threaded hole in a casting boss above and forward of the starter motor. (or anywhere else on the block, but /only/ on the block). Shine up the iron and the copper lug end with some sand paper. Rust is your enemy.

The positive battery cable ends at the starter relay bolted to the right inner fender. The main positive connection to the vehicle harness should also be on that post. Clean it well and tighten - use two wrenches because you don't want to twist the post and break the connections inside. The other large post holds the jumper to the starter motor. Clean, etc. The two smaller posts on the starter relay are a signal line from the ignition switch to tell the relay when to close and feed power to the starter and a line that feeds raw battery power to the [+] side of the coil during starting. When you release the key from [start] to [run] the [+] side of the coil is fed about 7V through a resistor in the harness.

All of the vehicle B+ power comes through the wires and cable on that first post. If it isn't a clean, tight connection you won't have lights, accessories or a starter. All of the vehicle B- power goes through that engine block connection.

There's nothing in the starter motor circuit that's fused. The only exception would be an after market harness with a master system fuse but if that popped you'd have no usable power anywhere.

OK, back up a moment. Your original symptom was that the starter spun up but wouldn't engage the flywheel. My original thought was that you had something going on that would allow enough current to spin the motor but not enough to pull in the Bendix drive. Under that little Twinkie-shaped metal cover on your `79 Ford (yep, GM steering column, Ford starting) starter is a magnetic arm that is pulled in when the field coil is energized. When it pulls in a fork pushes the drive gear out to engage with the flywheel ring gear -- and that's what wasn't happening on your original starter. There's also a set of large contact points under there, I don't recall if they open or close when the drive extends. You might look there and see if they're clean.

And, as Mike suggested, check your ground straps. There's one from the back of the engine block to the firewall to ground the tub and another that bridges the left engine mount from block to frame, and the battery cable _must_ go to the block on your engine, don't rely on the ground straps to carry starting current -- because they can't. But first, check those battery connections.

Let us know how you make out.

I'd love to see a link to a URL where a scanned copy of that page saying it is a "V-6" can be viewed. Besides, it's not even a six valve engine, it has twelve valves.

Oh, okay...

I think Bill made a mistake..

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ