Onboard Air, Drink Carbonation, Potential MIG Shielding Gas

For awhile now, I've been thinking about buying a CO2 tank so that I could create my own carbonated drinks... The ability to use it to quickly inflate the tires on my XJ and my plane without having to use a 12V compressor was definitely a potential bonus... Previously, I had used a BBQ propane tank that I had converted for air storage and I would fill it up from my home compressor before taking my XJ out or before heading down to the airport (my plane has a very slow leak in the tires)... Unfortunately, a BBQ propane tank just doesn't hold that much air although you could pump it up to 300 psi if you had a compressor that went that high... Although it would be possible to fill the tires with propane, running air tools off of propane would likely be rather hazardous, so I finally broke down and decided to go the CO2 route...

I went to a local beverage equipment supply company and picked up a 0-160 psi CO2 regulator for $45... The outlet fitting used a 1/4" NPT thread, so I replaced it with a 90 degree street elbow and air tool quick connect fitting so that I could reuse my existing hoses and air tools... I stopped off at a local welding gas supply store and was able to get a brand new steel 20# CO2 cylinder for $95 which included 20# of gas... There was also a local company that had new 20# aluminum cylinders for sell for $100, but that didn't include the CO2, but it did include a handle / valve guard... At that point, I had a portable CO2 tank that could either run air tools or fill tires... Total cost, including the fittings, approximately $145...

The Power Tank systems are available in 10# and 15# tanks... Considering the fact that the cost to refill a 20# tank is basically the same as it is to refill at 10# or 15# tank, it is more economical to go the 20# route, although the tank does take up a little more room... The tank is a little shorter than a typical AL80 scuba tank and 8" in diameter instead of

7.25"... The gas capacity of 20# of CO2 is around 171 cu-ft -- twice what basically the same size in a scuba tank would be in addition to having the added advantage of being able to make carbonated drinks...

There are some fixed 150 psi regulators available that are more compact and less likely to be damaged if you were to drop the tank on its side, but since most air tools require less than that, I would still have had to put an air tool regulator on the line to reduce the pressure to something more acceptable... Since I was going to be using the tank for soft drink carbonation also, being able to adjust the pressure at the tank was rather desireable...

Ok, now for the drink carbonation... First, I went to Pep Boys and bought four metal schraeder type valves that are normally used for wheels... I removed the black rubber washers from it since they would have imparted a tire store smell / taste to the drinks (this is the same reason that you would not want to use the rubber tire stems)... I then picked up some O-rings from the faucet section of my local home improvement store (Lowes)... I took a 2-liter bottle cap, drilled a hole in the top to match the size of the metal valve stem, inserted it from the bottom of the cap along with the O-ring and put the washer and nut on the outside of the bottle cap... I then filled up the bottle to within 2-3" of the top with cold water, put the top on loosely, squeezed the bottle so that all the air was out of it, and then inflated it to 40 psi... I then shook the bottle up for awhile and it was quite noticeable that the water was absorbing the CO2 since I could feel the pressure in the bottle decreasing... I added some more CO2 without opening the top, shook it up more until the pressure had noticeably decreased, and then repeated this process one more time... I then removed the top and had a nice cold glass of carbonated / seltzer water... Total time to make the bottle of carbonated water -- approximately a minute... Cost -- probably less than $0.05... Since this time, I have experimented with other drinks... I've made carbonated sugar free Kool-Aid for my daughter's lunch... I've found that Dr. Pepper is really sweeter than I prefer and diluting it by 50% with carbonated water is quite acceptable... I've tried carbonated chocolate milk -- I'm not sure that I like this one though since the carbonic acid that is created when water is carbonated tends to alter the taste of the milk to the point where it is somewhat 'different'... Probably one of those tastes that you just "have to get used to"... Perhaps more sugar in the drink would offset the taste somewhat... Next experiment will be carbonated sweetened ice tea and perhaps a carbonated cafe mocha type of drink... Haven't tried direct carbonation of alcohol yet though... Total additional cost of four schraeder type fittings and a box of O-rings, approximately $10...

Now that I have the CO2 tank, I guess I'm going to have to get into MIG welding so that I can use it as a shielding gas...

BTW, before I tried carbonating drinks, I tried oxygenating them by putting a quick connect air tool fitting on my O2 welding regulator... Although it is possible to get the drink to absorb the O2 and be somewhat bubbly, it's a lighter bubbly than carbonation and doesn't have the same flavor (due to the carbonic acid that is formed during carbonation)... The O2 also comes out of solution with the beverage more readily, thus you need to drink the beverage more quickly before it goes 'flat'... An interesting experiment, but not one that I would deem worth repeating...

Reply to
Grumman-581
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I would probably keep the regulator dismounted and use a type of tank with a cap, like on an O2 bottle, I wouldn't want that sucker busting off a regulator while in a collision. Similarly, I would securely mount it to keep from getting clonked in the head in a rollover.

What is the expansion coefficent of CO2? we used Nitrogen in race car tires because it doesn't change the tire pressure when it heats up as much as air. This might be worth another experiment, measure temp variation hot and cold, say when you have them down for crawling and the temp goes way up after ten miles or so from sidewall flex.

Reply to
Paul Calman

You're comfortable landing on tires that have slow leaks?

Reply to
Simon Juncal

They've always had a slow leak in them... They'll stay aired up for a few weeks and then it will be noticeable that they need a little air... It seems that every tubed tire that I've every owned has had a slow leak in them, be them bicycles or aircraft... The tire on my aircraft has had this same slow leak for the last 4 years... If it started leaking faster, I would be more concerned about it, but with this slow of a leak, I'm not all that concerned... At the very worst, the tire only needs to hold air for 5 hours anyway... Past that point, I'm either on the ground or my engine has gotten rather silent and I've thus got a problem that makes any decrease in tire pressure a rather minor inconvenience...

Reply to
Grumman-581

CO2 regulators are a little different in that you are supposed to replace the plastic washer in the connector every time you remove the regulator from the tank... The internal pressure in the tank varies from 700-1800 psi while there is still liquid CO2 in the tank... There have been people who have had the pressure release blow off while in a car and it has been described as loud and startling, but not a serious safety issue unless you kept the windows closed and allowed the CO2 concentration to get up high enough that it might cause breathing difficulties... It is loud and slow enough that you have plenty of warning and time to roll down the windows and stop the car...

From what I've read, it is basically the same as air...

Nitrogen is also used for Guinness beer kegs... All other beer kegs use CO2 for pumping the beer out... Although nitrogen is a better gas for tires, you have the same limitations with it that you do with air from the standpoint of capacity... A nitrogen tank will still be a compressed gas in the tank and not a liquid, so assuming a 3000 psi tank, you're not any better off than just rigging a scuba tank for an alternate gas supply... CO2 gives you twice the air supply in the same physical size tank since it is a liquid... The tank is not completely filled with CO2 since you need to leave a fairly good size expansion space in case the tank heats up too much... You don't want the pressure release to be dumping all your CO2...

Since I'm located in the Houston area, we don't have rocks to crawl over, so we don't have to lower our tire pressure as much as the rock crawlers... I run my 31x10.50s rather high while on the road, but offroad, I'll drop them down to around 20 psi... Offroad around here means mud and some sand, but the sand is usually packed so tight that you don't even need to air down for it...

Reply to
Grumman-581

I've been running CO2 in my tires for years without a problem. As an experiment I filled two tires with CO2 and 2 tires with regular air, carefully checked the air pressure to make sure each tire read the same, and then ran them in 100 F weather on the highway at 75 mph for 2 hours. At the end I checked the air pressure and it was the same for all the tires, just a few PSI higher.

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Dean

Reply to
Dean

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