Anyone on the newsgroup using biodiesel - commercial or home brewed? If so I'd be interested in their experiences with this stuff. (or SVO 'straight vegetable oil')
AWEM
Anyone on the newsgroup using biodiesel - commercial or home brewed? If so I'd be interested in their experiences with this stuff. (or SVO 'straight vegetable oil')
AWEM
I am also interested in using it in a 200Tdi. Has anybody used any particular type, straight or a blend??
Were any modifications done to the engine?
I am led to believe that with a hot engine it is ok but when cold the bio is more viscus and some makes of pump cannot handle he increased pressure.
Any drect experiences would be welcome.
John
There is a big difference between bio-diesel and "home brewed" vegetable oil.
AIUI bio-diesel is a manufactured product based on diesel fuel, but with some form of processed vegetable oil added, and is compatible with a standard diesel engine. Your home brewed chip fat is a different story, and causes problems as described above.
I do understand that you can add chip fat to your tank of diesel if you want, and that is the best way to do it - i.e. a mix of vegetable oil and diesel in your tank, rather than just putting vegetable oil in neat - even though in theory the diesel engine will run on pure veg oil.
Have a search on the web, there are loads of websites holding info on this subject.
Matt.
I have converted a 110 CSW (19J engine) to run on SVO.
There have been several postings in the last 2-3 months on it.
Cheers
Peter (puffernutter)
There are also many sites dedicated to it. I ran SVO straight from the supermarket for a while, it was fine but the engine started to chug a little as the weather got colder, so I fitted a heat exchanger between the fuel filter and the filter holder plugged into the hot water line to the cabin heater, that fixed it. I could still fill the road with white smoke when starting in the morning but after a mile of chugging with no power it picked up and ran perfectly. I didn't go into full winter with that setup though and stopped doing it soon afterwards as it wasn't worth the hassle.
I'm getting a 110 next week (hurray!) and have also been wondering about using Modified Waste Vegetable Oil (as opposed to Straight Vegetable Oil) from these guys
On a related issue, does anyone have any CO2 emissions figures for this kind of fuel, other than the figures produced by the manufacturers themselves?
cheers
Olly
--
110 station wagon on it's way
CO2 figures for a true bio, rather than fossil derived, fuel are not particulary relevant. The CO2 released will have been absorbed from the atmosphere fairly recently like last year when the plant was growing.
The CO2 "problem" comes from the burning of fuels that were plants millions of years ago and releasing vast quanties of CO2 that have been locked up all those years.
per litre if it wasn't for the tax, making the Mazola very pricey indeed. You can use it legally, but should declare it to HM Customs who will send you a nice tax bill equivalent to about 70p per litre, making the true cost of Mazola for road use about 7 quid a gallon. Ouch. TonyB
As far as I understand it, the 70p/litre price I quoted does include 27p or something that is added by the bio-power people and paid to HMRC before you buy. See
Olly
The analogy I like to use (because most people don't seem to get it otherwise) is that using fossil fuel is like getting your water by carving chunks of polar ice-cap off instead of getting it from rivers or rainwater. You're adding water that wouldn't otherwise be there, rather than recycling it.
Bio-fuel is recycled carbon to most intents and purposes.
I think the reason people don't use it is quite obvious - availability.
If there was a choice --at the pumps-- between diesel and this stuff it would be a no-brainer, but because most fueling stations are run / franchised by the main oil companies you ain't likely to see it in competition with their own product. That's why you do sometimes see bio-diesel (apparently!), because it is still based on a product produced by the oil companies!
The problem I see in using SVO (as someone has called it here) is storing / producing enough at home. My tank takes around 80 litres. That's a hell of a lot of oil to have lying around at home!! and I personally usually need at least one tank full every week.
Matt.
Yes ian, very good analogy. a similar problem i have encountered is the belief that if you plant 10 trees (or 20 or something), they will absorb the same amount of CO2 that your car produces. they forget to add that when the tree falls down and dies after 50 odd years, 95% of its stored carbon will be released back into the atmosphere as CO2 as the tree decomposes.
i am now regretting selling my old diesel landcruiser and going for the petrol land-rover. while i love the landy, they just don't offer a decent diesel motor other than the 200tdi which is way out of my price-range. I am very keen to get my hands on a 110 with the 3.9 isuzu diesel as fitted here in oz so i can also have a crack at the vegetable oil. But mid 1980's diesel
110's are still fetching close to 10,000 still out of my budget.Sam.
If you mean a duty bill of 70p/litre, that's bollocks..The maximum duty on new oil is around 40 pence-ish/litre, on used oil its 20 pence-ish.
Steve
On or around Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:12:33 +0000 (UTC), "Andrew Mawson" enlightened us thusly:
I enquired of a local company that are reprocessing chip oil etc., but the price is not really better than dinodiesel and the supply situation sounded too iffy to rely on. You may have better suppliers in your area. I quite like the idea of having a supply at home, though, and that's worth a few quid. But then again, I could get a tank and have dinodiesel delivered in
1000l loads, as well, and probably not pay any more.nice idea in theory, ATM, here.
On or around Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:08 +0000 (UTC), Matthew Maddock enlightened us thusly:
that's what's called "bioblend". proper biodiesel is all veggie, but it is nevertheless processed to make it behave somewhat like regular diesel.
SVO gets you into needing heaters to get it runny enough and so on.
On or around Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:14:18 +0000 (UTC), "Olly R" enlightened us thusly:
watch out for out-of-date websites. I found a local supplier with impressive-sounding prices, but when I got on to them about it it turned out that the prices on the web were out of date. The new price was much nearer the price of ordinary diesel.
brewed?
delivered in
c.117)
Googling around for a few days it seems if you are prepared do do a bit of plumbing, it is fairly straightforward to convert either new or used vegetable oils to biodiesel. In essance (though not quite as simple as this) you mix in the correct quantities of sodium hydroxide and methanol, which have been reacted together. You then let the gylcerin settle out, draw off the biodiesel and wash it to remove traces of methanol & sodium hydroxide. With care and forethought it seems emenantly do-able. The glycerin is apparently biodegradable and can be disposed of safely by composting unless you want to make large quantities of soap !
When produced it would seem that you can treat it exactly like normal 'fossel fuel' diesel with the one caveat that is is a good solvent for rubber based items like hoses, so if yours are neoprene you are ok, but if natural rubber they need to be changed. If you produce it and intend to use it on the road you notify HMC&E who send you an appropriate form and charge you tax proportional to your production. As my application is for a stationary generator this doesn't apply.
A very useful reference:
AWEM
Andrew Mawson wrote: In essance (though not quite as
This sodium methoxide stuff is supposedly a catalyst. Why can't it be recovered and reused ? Any chemists here ? There must be....
Steve
hydroxide
Some of the web pages refer to it as a catalyst, but looking at it it isn't really as the methoxide is made from the methanol & the sodium hydroxide but 'bits' of it end up replacing the glycerin group on the end of the fatty acid chain. I don't pretend to understand the chemistry as organic chemistry was rather lost on me back in those dim and distant school days Some web pages refer to 'methanol recovery' but as far as I can tell they are refering to recovering excess methanol when the ratios were wrong in the first place.
AWEM
Sorry Olly, I should have read it properly. TonyB
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