How to recover money after buying stolen Landie

I believe it can be very difficult actually getting the money , even once the court has told them to pay up .. If he's still trading I would have thought "watchdog" woul give him national coverage for being a shit. Steve the grease

Hows it work getting a company declared insolvent if they don't cough up..or have I got my wires crossed ??

Or send the boys around for a few test drives :-) only a bit of mild offroading of course :-)

I do tend to favour involoving the likes of watchdog though..

Lee D

Having also "won" a civil case some years back and then having received no money, I know your frustration with the law. Taking matters further with the legal profession will only cost even more money and the chaces are that he'll still put up 2 fingers at you and, effectively, the law.

If it was stolen, and he's not making good, certainly parking outside with adverts and handbills is an idea if you've got support and are built large! But what is the Police angle on selling stolen goods? Does'nt that make him a fence and isn't he liable for criminal proceedings?

Trading Standards people and Watchdog types would seem a good idea - or at least copies of letters to them shown to him by you and a few well-built mates with their hands outsretched.

Good luck!

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What about putting a lien on his current assets?

On or around Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:17:42 +0000 (UTC), "rickon nye" enlightened us thusly:

I assume you have to go back to court and get another judgement when they fail to pay up. Dunno.

a chap I knew had an insurance claim for loss of lower leg, against a car driver. Insurance admitted liability eventually but didn't pay, it went to court, got a court order on the insurers to pay up within 30 days or something, which they still didn't pay, went back to court and the judge said "since this has not been paid following previous court order, I'm now doubling the compensation, and if it's not paid within 7 days, it'll double again." They paid. silly sods, if they'd paid in the first place they'd have saved 'emselves 30 grand.

that ISTR took about 5 years or something.

if you have a court order for the dealer to pay up, then they're in breach of that, and thus you can I assume go back to court about it. The (ir)resopnsible person at the dealership will presumably eventually bit slung inside for contempt, or something, which he probably won't want.

IANAL, mind.

alternatively, get onto the local rag, sticking STRICTLY to the facts, and see if they'll stick it on the front page...

[snip]

As I recall instance I've heard of over the years, the problem _may_ be in the detail of the original judgement. If it were against a company, that company may no longer exist, even though the same man is selling cars from the same site.

Hello,

I did manage it in 'refund' circumstances when I encountered a crooked dealer in Sheffield.

Some questions: Is the dealer a limited company, partnership or sole trader? Does he have stock, is he still trading? You say you have cheques, were they dishonoured, are they all from the same bank? How much time do you have to pursue this guy? What city or county is he in - reason I ask is that some Trading Standards support the consumer / cheated party others - like Sheffield

- seem more interested in supporting traders by ignoring flagrant breaches of the law on the basis that gentle exhortation is the way forward!

Answer those and I'll get back with some ideas!

Lurch

In message , Lee_D writes

You have to petition the High Court to have the company declared insolvent - check whether ltd co or sole trader It costs though, about £800.00 + expenses of about as much again if IIRC.

The Insolvency service will then take over and a liquidator will be appointed. But of course you will be just one of the unsecured creditors i.e. last in the queue. One small consolation you will be among the first in the queue to get your court expenses paid. If the dealer is sole trader then you will have a claim on all his personal assets also barring "Tools of his trade" e.g. his car.

Don't assume you will have a claim on the vehicles on his forecourt - they will probably be on finance and the finance company will reclaim them.

The secret is to find out as much as possible about the dealer and his assets. If he hasn't got any, then there's not much point in pursuing him - it may be worth hiring a private detective to find out more about him.

Hi all,

Thanks for all your interest in my case, just to rub salt into my wounds I rang him up the other day and was told he was on holiday in Ibiza........yet when the bailiffs have called they said there wasn't any goods etc worth taking!..how's that for justice. How do these people get away with this.

Hi Lurch,

Thanks for your reply, the answers to your questions are:

He is a sole trader He is still trading although he seems mainly to be selling enginees at the moment and carrying out repairs, he even advertises in one of the Landrover mags Yes the cheques were dishonoured, I think each returned cheque cost him £27.00, and they were from the same bank I have lots of time to pursue this guy. County of Kent (not very helpful, court, police balifs etc, in fact the police seem to know of him but dont seem to do anything).

Regards

Rickon

In article , rickon nye writes

Did he have premises near a rail crossing?

If so I think an old collage friend of mine ended up working for him. A few tails to tell.

OK, some starting points -

If he is a sole trader then his business assets need not be considered seperately from his non business assets. Clearly he has some assets, stock equipment, tools etc. and is paying some of his bills so has some cashflow. He may also have personal possessions, his own car, caravan, boat, house even all of which should be considered.

Also, what the Bailiffs think is value is merely their opinion and convenience. (Yet another quasi profession who take payment but often achieve nothing!) Worth you, or another, covertly doing a quiet inventory of what is standing around and attempting to establish status - owned or leased etc.

I have an ex-brother in law who is a good bailiff who despairs of the ignorance of many colleagues expecially when it comes to trade assets. You may see two engines and two gearboxes, you may know that they will sell on ebay at, say, six hundred pounds altogether . . . they may think them worthless as for convenience they would put them in the local furniture and bric a brac auction then have to get their clothes mucky taking them back when no-one bought them! You may see snap-on tool chest with tools worth 1k second hand . . . they may see only worthless old tools!

The Land Registry will tell you who owns property - business and / or residential and that can then go on your list.

Incidentally, have you checked whether he has other CCJs

Next thing is to take your list and go and get some advice from the County Court together with the appropriate forms firstly pursuing the various options for enforcement (at web address below)and also for petitioning for a bankrupty order.

Then you need to set about causing some serious inconvenience, first ports of call are the CAB and Trading Standards, they should refer you to the info you have already found at -

The difficulty is that you have to provide the intelligence yourself. The bureaucrats will crank the handle but they will seldom bother to do the detailed work. There is no point in getting a freezing order on an empty bank account! You need to find a way of estimating when there will be money in it.

However, initially, you can cause a lot a hassle by asking the court to call this joker in to explain his means. There is no reason why the product of your intelligence gathering should not be given to the Judge - not only assets and income . . . that you believe he owns such and such but also his disposal of funds . . . how he spends it. You know that he was in Ibiza on . . . I told the judge where my debtor had been the week before my hearing and it gave him a little more steel especially as the guy was pleading poverty. Also, ask about and find out whether his children have ponies, observe his lifestyle etc. Be careful however as people have more of a right to privacy than others have to justice on occasion!

You can also innocently ask around using the public domain information that you have a judgement against this guy as the starter. Ask his suppliers whether they have any idea of when he is likely to be flush with cash, ask any customers you can identify how they are paying and when they are paying. If you find they are paying him cash you can cause a bit of a problem by tipping off the Customs and Excise that you think he may be avoiding VAT and . . . by the way . . . what are his VAT quarter dates please? This is useful as he is likely to have some cash in his bank account a few days before the month end when he pays his VAT.

If the court gets nowhere and the bureaucrats (who we pay anyway whether they get results or not) don't seem helpful then send your last demand for the payments due to you giving a date by which if not paid you will apply for an order in Bankruptcy.

I would suggest that, as you have the time, you send copies of each step to your MP pointing out that you pay taxes for the regulation of society and then have to do everything yourself . . .

My own MP and Trading Standards Dept were very supportive and helpful but Sheffield were not in the case I mentioned. However, a little later I noticed that my MP used his experience when pushing for harder consumer protection enforcement. I find that writing to officials asking what their policy is in such or such a situation (then I describe the outline of my own situation as a 'hypothetical')to be a useful way of prompting action.

Anyway, that's all I have time for at present. Hope that helps, keep us posted.

Lurch

...

But be aware that this type of 'intelligence' gathering carries a serious risk to your health. The type of person that you sem to be describing will

*NOT* take kindly to the level of 'intrusion' Lurch is advocating, if you really want to go this route, hire a private detective, they seem expensive, but often have a network of contacts that can gain most of that info with two or three phonecalls, and are less likely to be intimidated into something they'll regret, once (if at all) discovered. I have dealt with a similar trader in the past, and he became quite aggressive and threatening, reminding me he 'knew where I lived'. Silly bugger. Go with the courts and your M.P. that's good advice.

`Agrippa

There is such a thing a a 'garnishee order' that the court can make when payment is not forthcoming. As I understand it this orders anyone who owes him money to pay you instead. This includes a bank that holds his funds as a debit to him, so if he is VAT registered and a big dollop of cash is in his account just before his quarterday, the order can divert the dosh to you. Same applies to rent payable on his premises.

See

Andrew Mawson