Yeah, clogging up the roads with their effing caravans.. Should be banned!
I've got two traffic cops in my local green lane club (FoDRoW), I'd better not forget the tax disc on the pinz this month..
Just to clarify ... these extra lights (which myself and my mechanic are calling driving-lights, not fog-lights) can be switched OFF independantly - when they're switched ON, they will only actually come on with FULL BEAM i.e. the blue light on your dashboard. They cannot be switched on on their own or in any other configuration - only with FULL BEAM (not shouting just clarifying :-)).
When I got the car, those lights were damaged and not working so were replaced, specifically, with DRIVING LIGHTS (CLEAR, NOT corrugated or frosted lenses).
I tried to tell the inspector that, if he looked up the specs for THAT model of RR, he would find them classed as DRIVING LIGHTS (or in some publications, running lights) but he insisted that lights below a certain level are fog-lights.
Anyway, I phoned the local Police Road Traffic Dept. today to ask their advice and came away even more confused than before because even they weren't 100% sure but (like they do) wouldn't admit it.
I then phoned a mate of mine who used to be an Inspector AND Head Driving Instructor at Hendon Police College ... and he said there was no point in having the conversation!!! He said, since I hadn't been given notice to hand in my documents, it was simply a spot check and they had to come up with SOME verbal excuse to stop me. He said he had no doubt that if they actually thought 100% I was commiting an offence they would have at least asked me to hand in my docs.
As far as he is concerned, he said, I could have the front of the car lit up like Blackpool Illuminations ... as long as the extra lights go off as soon as I go back to dipped-beam.
Confused? You should be!!!
Colin
This is an odd one, I know all my roof lights come on with main beam, but I have an over-ride that turns them off.
However, in a previous life I owned a Ford Explorer. Main beam fired up two under bumper lights (termed driving lights - but the front fog switch *also* activated them ISTR). This was as fitted from factory ... so it can't be
*that* illegal?
Oddly my RR has "fog" lights in the front bumper. They are clear lenses tho .... so that makes them driving lights, but AFAIK they don't come on with main beam, and they can't be switched on with the lights in "auto" mode either :s
Oh and the big giveaway is they *do* come on with dipped beam in non-auto mode when you press the front foglight button :)
Confused...yep I am.
On or around Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:43:13 GMT, "CJ" enlightened us thusly:
might be worth replacing the headlamps - the reflectors tend to get s**te after a while.
On or around Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:28:14 +0100, "Jeff" enlightened us thusly:
about the only restriction on optional main beam lamps is that the face forward and emit white or yellow light. I think they maybe are supposed to be symmetrical as well.
DIP beams have to be within 500 and 1200mm from the ground. Fog lamps must not be more than 1200mm but can be below 500mm.
On or around Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:12:02 +0100, "GbH" enlightened us thusly:
it means that you can't have your only pair ("obligatory") of main beams so their outer edges are nearer the middle of the vehicle than the dip beams.
so if you had: __________dip beams | | v v OO OO ^ ^ |_____|___main beams
it'd be wrong.
On or around Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:04:50 GMT, SteveG enlightened us thusly:
the sierra will let you have front fogs on in addition to the main beams. I've seen several where the REAR fogs go out when you're on main beam. If you define the lamps as optional main beam lamps and wire them as such (only alight with the main beam) then they're not fog lamps.
OK... regulations further down...
RVLR 25 is about use of lamps: you must use (all) dipped lamps (e.g. not one out of 2) in the dark UNLESS you have main beam on or fog lamps **in conditions of seriously reduced visibility**. It also says you don't need dipped beams on a restricted road with street lighting when it is lit.
RVLR 27 is a big table of prohibited use of different lights. The fog lights bit says "(b) Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility." [a) is used so as to cause dazzle or discomfort]
note that none of those says that you can't have dips and fogs on at once when it's foggy, although there is the bit about not having more than 2 dipped lights, somewhere.
The offence if any is a failure to comply with construction and use regulations (although lights are not in C&U any more) and is an offence under section 42 of RTA 1988. Basically, the things not under this blanket are brakes, weight, speed camera detectors and mobile phones, which are covered separately in section 41.
RVLR (excerpt):
(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit :-
(a) during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and
(b) in seriously reduced visibility.
(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) do not apply :-
(a) in the case of a motor vehicle fitted with one obligatory dipped-beam headlamp or a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if a main-beam headlamp or a front fog lamp is kept lit;
(b) in the case of a motor vehicle, other than a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination, fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if :-
(i) a pair of main-beam headlamps is kept lit; or
(ii) in seriously reduced visibility, a pair of front fog lamps which is so fitted that the outermost part of the illuminated area of each lamp in the pair is not more than 400 mm from the outer edge of the vehicle is kept lit;
(c) to a vehicle being drawn by another vehicle;
(d) to a vehicle while being used to propel a snow plough; or
(e) to a vehicle which is parked.
(3) For the purposes of this regulation a headlamp shall not be regarded as lit if its intensity is reduced by a dim-dip device.
On or around Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:50:12 +0100, "David J. Button" enlightened us thusly:
Fog lamps are supposed to be aimed downwards by 3%.
On or around Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:20:56 GMT, "CJ" enlightened us thusly:
If he asserts that they're fog lamps merely 'cos of where they're mounted, he's wrong. RVLR makes no requirement for mounting height for optional main beam lamps (driving lamps, spot lamps, whatever). If they're wired as you state, then they're NOT fog lamps, regardless of where they're mounted.
The only offence you may be guilty of is of using headlamps so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other road users, per RVLR regulation 27,item
1, part a, if you didn't dip sufficiently promptly.
Why ITNOG don't they just say that. I thought it meant the light patterns, (ie beams) which by definition, the dip is inboard of the main because it dips to the left. In the UK!
Cheers for that Austin :-)
On or around Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:50:44 +0100, "Neil Brownlee" enlightened us thusly:
That's what defines them as fog lights. Position is largely a red herring - fog lamps are not allowed to be above 1200mm from the ground, but then neither can dipped heads. Other than that, both fog lights and driving lights can be mounted more or less anywhere provided they only face forwards and only emit white or yellow light. The difference is in the operation: a lamp which can't be illuminated except when main beam is on is a driving lamp, but one which can operate either with dip beam or with sidelights is a fog lamp, or so I interpret the law. You can't judge by the glass, 'cos these days lamps can have more or less any beam pattern with a clear lens.
Fog lights are supposed to be aimed down 3%, which is half the reason they dazzle: people use them illegally in the rain and they shine back off the wet road.
Fog lamps in use INSTEAD of dipped heads are not allowed to be further than
400mm from the side of the vehicle.MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.