Pulled for red diesel

Got stopped for a 'red diesel' check this morning.

In rush hour traffic they were stopping every Landy and old white van and that was about it.

No private cars, no Discos or Range Rovers, no buses, no bigger commercial vehicles and they were in a place where you probably couldn't have got something over 25 feet in length parked

Looks like you can burn red diesel if you drive a Range Rover or a minibus because you're not going to get checked...

Reply to
William Black
Loading thread data ...

I've been told this happens, interesting to get further confirmation. Back when I used to run veg oil, before it was legal to do so, I stopped because I was told this was likely to happen particularly in rural areas where they would stop agricultural-looking vehicles like Defenders and dip the tanks. It never happened to me in the end.

I was told by a mechanic who works near the coast that about a third of the diesel cars they used to service were running on Marine diesel, not sure how he could tell (dye in the fuel filters?).

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

Well this was in the morning rush hour into Scarborough, so there were next to no agricultural vehicles on the road. It was just the ministry on a fishing trip, almost certainly at the wrong place and wrong time.

They hadn't caught anyone that morning, I asked...

What I found irritating was that the cop doing the stopping was only stopping people who looked like 'the usual suspects'. He obviously didn't realise that people who do burn red diesel tend not to be driving about during the rush hour.

They don't 'play in the traffic' at rush hour...

They're either at work (farmers and etc) or still in bed (white van man)

Reply to
William Black

Donno, AFAIK marine diesel is yet another name for red diesel. Maybe he wasn't aware that red is used by agricultural, road mending and other non-propulsion engines and boilers.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

couldn't

Well I've been pulled and tested three times in my Disco, so that rather blows your argument! First time was just south of Tower Bridge, then a few months later on the Old Kent Road, then last year in Bromley where I lived at the time. Wouldn't dream of running Red in my Disco despite having about 1000 litres of it on the farm - they have the power to confiscate the vehicle if they catch you.

AWEM

Reply to
Andrew Mawson

How many Defenders do they get in the Old Kent Road?

Reply to
William Black

Some 10 years ago, Customs and Excise received a tip off that I was using red diesel in a Shogun I owned at the time.

I had seen a Fuel Testing Unit (as marked on side of van) go past my house slowly a couple of times - clearly with hindsight they were looking for the Shogun - as it wasnt there, since it was in for repairs, they went on.

December 15th, the Shogun was there - they parked their van across my driveway and walked up to the front door and demanded to test the Shogun's fuel. No problem, they took the keys off me and dipped the tank and all they could say was that the fuel was a bit watery.

I knew exactly who had tipped Customs off - so I gave them a tip off which resulted in the engineering firm in osset which had ballsed up the reconditioning of my engine and whom I was taking to court having two of their vehicles siezed for using red!!!!!

Revenge is sweet.

Reply to
David J. Button

I think at the time marine diesel was dead cheap, and many of the boating crowd were running their cars on it as they were buying it for boats. Not sure where the relevance of the "agricultural, road mending and other non-propulsion engines and boilers" bit comes in.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

Marine/Red diesel only attracts about 10p/l duty, road diesel is 50p+/l duty.

Those vehicles can legally use red even though they also use the public highway. Though the restrictions on how much public highway an agricultural vehical can drive in one stretch is quite tight. Obviously engines for electrical power, pumping etc or gasoil used in boilers have no reason to pay Road Fuel Duty.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Not sure if that's the case any more, I think the duty on marine diesel has been raised, or is going to be raised.

Well yes, but I *strongly suspect* that he could tell the difference between a car being bought in for a service and a boiler, tractor, stationary engine or road-mending machine.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

On or around Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:07:10 -0000, "Andrew Mawson" enlightened us thusly:

which is precisely why people with clonky old trannies and the like do it... van's worth sod-all anyway.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

There are hefty fines though, IIRC the vehicle is confiscated but you get it back after paying a small fee, but you have to pay the fine too. Having a worthless car doesn't mean you just lose the cost of the worthless car.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

When they've stopped you and confiscated the vehicle, they will then charge you *their* estimate of the duty you've evaded for as far back as they want. It's up to *you* to prove that it's only an innocent mistake....

As one coach company I know of found out the hard way when a tanker accidentally fed 20,000 litres of red diesel into their fuel bunker. :-/

Reply to
John Williamson

On or around Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:20:50 -0000, "David J. Button" enlightened us thusly:

a bit longer ago than that I was working for K____, a scrapyard owner. We went in a typically decrepit scrap lorry one day to H-west, to the brewery depot there, wherein were a pile of scrap palletts, which K____ had negotiated to buy for next-to-sod-all and was planning to hawk to C____ who wanted them for single-use transporting raw (salted) animal hides to Spain.

We pulled into the yard, closely followed by a yellow van. "What's this c**t doing up my a**e?" quoth K____, peering in the mirror. Then he clocked the writing on the van: HM Customs and Excise Fuel Testing Unit. "Oh, it the fuel testing f***ers. I hate them, I'll have some fun with them now."

Stopped the lorry, and out we jumped. Out too jumped the C&E. "Good Morning, I'm from the HM Customs and Excise..." began the blokey.

K____ favoured him with a Look. "I know who you lot are." followed by speculation about their parents matrimonial status and other mutterings.

Blokey then tried to give him a piece of paper. K____ shoved it back in his face, saying "That's no use to me, I can't read or write." (which happened to be untrue).

Blokey starts reading it aloud. Meanwhile, other blokey, perceiving K____'s attitude, is dispatched to the office to hunt a phone (this was before widespread mobiles) - Quoth K____ to me "You go with him, see what he's up to". He was it turned out phoning the dibbles for reinforcements. We went back outside. K____ was still arguing the toss with blokey 1, suggesting among other things that the lorry was on private property and they had no rights there etc.

In due course, after about half an hour of this, with Blokey 1 more and more convinced that he's got a "live" one, PC plod rolled up. Blokey explained that he was trying to dip the tank. PC plod walks over, sees who it is. "Oh, hello K____" quoth he. Under protest, K____ allows the tank to be dipped. "You've got to supply me with a sample as well, so I can get it tested myself".

The look on Blokey's face when white diesel was forthcoming was priceless, and K____ still insisted on him doing an official sealed sample for him to test.

Later found out that K____ had previously had a wagon confiscated for red, and failed to defend this on the grounds that he'd just bought it from a farmer, it then being legal for "farmer's goods" tax class wagons to run on red. Hence his delight at the chance to wind them up.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

From my quick digging about this morning the duty on marine diesel was/is/has been made equal to that on road diesel but only for pleasure craft and only for diesel used for propulsion.

Red now has 10.07p/l duty to go up to 10.42p/l on 1st April '09. Unleaded petrol and heavy oil for road use was 50.35p/l now 52.35p/l and 54.19p/l from 1st April '09. It will be interesting to see if the 2p/l whacked on on the 1st Dec '08 to compenstate for the VAT reduction will disappear on

1st Jan '10 when the VAT rate goes back up...
Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Just wanted to maximise return for their effort ...... Richard

Reply to
Richard

Well they hadn't caught anyone when I went through...

Reply to
William Black

Maybe they should try East Anglia

Reply to
Richard

On or around Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:02:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:

It won't. Mainly, because it was a postponed rise from before when the oil prices were through the roof and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

so it was due anyway, sooner or later, and will stay.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.