In what is becoming a bit of a tradition, my new Land Rover didn't make it home tonight. Fortunately I was only a mile from home and got on of my techies to steer while I dragged it home with the Disco. In rush hour traffic it was quite interesting, particularly as Neil is a biker and hasn't driven a Landy before (especially one with a dead engine).
I reckon the symptoms point to 'no diesel' - it started and ran OK, then over a couple of hundred yards gradually lost power and stopped.
What's the chance of the pump self-priming? I got away with it with Mandy's car a bit back, but I don't reckon a Sherpa lump will self prime?
Youre going to have to prime it yourself. Isnt hard unless your lift pump is broken!
There should be a little handle on the bottom of the lift pump on the side of the engine. Waggle this in the correct fashion and you will pull fuel up from the tank. If you cave nice clear fuel lines it pretty obvious when this is happening. On my lift pump you have to move the lever back and forth between 135 and 180degrees to pump (not as obvious as it sounds as it looks like it should move between 90 and 135. (yours may vary though..) Also - Mine wont pump with the external lever if the internal lever (the one driven off the cam) is in the wrong place, so if it isnt doing anything when you move the lever, then turn it over a bit to change the posiston of the internal lever.. It should move the fuel farily quick
Once you have it primed up to the lift pump it should loose the rest of the air when you turn it over. Mine always has.
If by no diesel you mean that you ran out then you should have noticed the engine racing before it stopped. Speaking as someone who has run out of diesel a couple of times, the engine will seem to race and be louder when it is just about to run out. In mine you can get about half a mile like this (I've got onto the forecourt and pushed it to the pumps both times! :-)
If you have any more troubles with this engine then ask here. I seem to have had most of them myself, so might be able to help! (Its stalling as soon as i start it now which i suspect to be air in the fule lines..)
By this i mean that it should be pretty obvious when you're pumping that the fuel is moving up the pipe. I've spent hours trying to make dead lift pumps go in the past..
naughty boy! that £10 worth of diesel didn`t get you far Tim, you must have a heavy right foot. Good job the fuel tank is clean inside or you`ll be fishing bits of s**te out of the lines and fuel filter for weeks! When you fill it back up and bleed it with the hand primer, its worth cracking off the injection pipes and carrying on priming a bit more to ensure no air is stuck in those pipes.
ps lack of fuel gauge - if it does turn out to be the fuel tank sender and not the gauge/voltage regulator, give me a yell as i still have the reciept for that and its still under guarantee.
Oddly enough I've just been and rescued Mandy, who ran out of diesel in her Merc (despite the gauge reading just under 1 quarter). About 1 minute of cranking (with a few pauses for breath) and it fired up and ran like a good one. Ought to put the battery on charge tonight though...
Right, I've about 2 gallons left in the jerry, on top of the 2 gallons I put in the 109 this morning, so I'll strap on a new battery and see if I can persuade it to self prime.
Looking at the battery in there I might splash out on a bigger one - it looks a bit Fiesta-sized for my liking.
I have a type 334 which just fits into the battery box and is a lot more powerful than the standard 069 (I think) If you go for one of these try a commercial vehicle place like F&G up your way they may be a bit cheaper
On or around Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:18:53 +0000, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:
I rather doubt the LR will self-prime, but it might. you're talking about a
2¼ engine here, aren't you?...
normal procedure is to loosen but not remove the fuel inlet to the injector pump, spin it until the fuel comes out, then loosen and injector pipe at the injector end and keep spinning it until you get diesel there as well.
as to battery... a type 643 or 644 as fitted to tractors or lorries is a good bet, provided it'll fit, I think it used to be the standard. terminals the other side is the only difference. for *real* cranking power there's a
664, or even a 8-summat which might be a bit tall...
I've always had to prime it up to the lift pump, but then the rest of it (the injection pump and the injectors) has done its own stuff.
Ive got a battery out of a truck in mine, a couple of inches longer than a normal battery, and possibly a bit higher.
I dont know how Tim's/Nick's 2.5 was fitted, but you have to move the battery out of its standard engine bay position (as the injection pump is in its way). I put mine under the passenger seat, and there is plenty of space under there for a bigger battery!
I dont think that i would have a chance with a normal battery in mine!. Even with the bigger battery in it, it still seems to give it some hammer turning it over to start it.
Great stuff that Tom. I'm very jealous of your nice neat engine bay - neatly routed pipework, painted block and not a drop of oil in sight. Fantastic. You should get out more!!! ;-)
But seriously, since we have such a great picture you can help me out with some basic diesel theory.
Am I right in thinking that the red leads are the feed to the glow plugs? I did say 'basic theory'....
The injectors have two feeds - at a guess the input is the bottom pipe and the black common pipe across the tops would be the return to the fuel tank?
Having identified the injector pump and lift pump, wots the cylindrical chappy in the middle with the black pipe feeding from the top? Is that part of the injector pump or something else entirely?
It certainly is a damn sight easier with the bloody oil bath filter out of the way. Did you replace it with a K&N? I did this on the petrol S2 when it was alive and didn't notice any difference except greater space and access.
The reason for the little battery is, as you say, because the battery box is too small for an 069 (just found out the hard way). I may have to give that some thought - am I right in thinking that diesels take a lot more oomph in starting than petrols (high compression and all that)? It did flatten very quickly when I drove it out of the way on the starter on Wednesday night - managed about 5 yards and 1 kerb in low first.
Prime to the lift pump finally sorted. When I stopped trying to prime the vacuum pump it all started to make more sense! I'm guessing that when it starts spraying diesel into your hand it is primed.
There seems to be a slightly customised battery tray in the traditional place. An 069 don't fit.
Finally got it primed to the lift pump and gave it a try. Battery didn't hold out long enough to get it running, nor did my portable jump-start pack - I'm guessing it will need a good long crank to kick into life. I'd only charged it for about an hour so it was a bit hopeful. It's on charge overnight so I'm hopeful for tomorrow morning.
On or around Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:59:48 +0000, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:
yep
yep
vacuum pump for the brake servo, I'd guess. The lift pump is abaft it.
Must have acquired a nonstandard battery at the same time as the 2.5 engine, I guess. ISTR the 644 or 643 being the standard diesel fitment. nothing as wimpy as an 069, anyway...
stick it under the passenger seat, I would. It may already have a battery tray there. That's where the 90/110 have it. You'll need a length of big fat wire. On mine, I used a piece of defunct 25mm² jumplead, but that isn't really big enough for a diesel; I suppose you could double it...
Hehe. I was just this evening thnking about what worthwile things i could have achived this summer if i hadnt wasted all that time doing the landy! (and the summer before....).
Photos always make things look better than they really are!. I painted the block when i rebuilt it so that i could see all the oil leaks easier.. Its a wonder what you can do with a bit of hammerite! :)
Doesn't your 101 have a colour co-ordinated engine bay Tim? :p
yep, and to give you an idea of battery usage, the new glow plugs i put in mine last week take 10 seconds to glow and pull 14Amps!. The proper ones for this engine should be 20 second glow and the same current according to the book at my local diesel place.
To complicate it more you also have the fuel fiter.. Mine has 5 pipes coming to and going from it!. No idea how it all flows through there but it seems to work....
I'd say the improved access alone is worth it anyhow. Ive never driven this engine without the K&N on, but my mate who put it on recconed it improved it. I put a K&N on my car recently and it was a noticable improvement over the knackered paper filter and housing!
Yeah. diesels do take more oomph to start. The increased compression is noticable if you try to turn it over by hand. Theres also the glow plugs (see my note above)
If you have the miltitary fuel tank outriggers on the passenger side of your chassis you can stick a straight shelf between the top and bottom of them. ideal for an under-passenger battery!
I hope yours starts for you tommorrow!. Whenever i do any work to mine (to the fuel system anyhow) i always put the battery on charge at the same time to give it a fighting chance..
If that's true, something's amiss. It ought to be a *higher* current for a shorter time, as:
Power = current^2 x resistance.
If they heat up faster (needs more power) they ought to pull more current too.
There is a scenario where the battery voltage is significantly higher than normal (unlikely), and the leads/relay of slightly higher resistance than normal, resulting in a higher voltage across the glow plugs, making them warm up quicker, but it's not likely.
So one suspects, in rough order:
the dealer's book of words 2. the ammeter (under reading) 3. the wiring (with a very good battery)
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