Steering drifting

I wonder if any of you guys could shed some light on a problem i have with my series 3 88 deisel When driving the vehicle drifts right and left u have to keep correcting all the time. (playschool driving 8) At speed ( a relative term 8) it can be quite unerving if u go over a small bump in the road it lurches left or right and take quite a few corrections before your stright again. When u go over bumps in feilds it clunks alot from the front end both sides. My series 2a did not do any of these things. The garage looked underneath and replaced a wheel bearing and said it all looks good underneath. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx

Jason Hall (poor and scared of garage bills)

Reply to
Jason Hall
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Cheapest is to check your tyre pressures ... but they're unlikely to make anything go clunk.

Provided that the ball-joints (track rod ends etc - there are 6 altogether) are in good condition then have a look at the arms on the steering relay (top and bottom) to make sure that they are clenched up tight. Check the steering box drop-arm aswell. If that lot's all good and tight then it's the suspension bushes. The checks cost nothing, but as you also say it clonks from both sides going over bumps it's looking like a bush problem.

Steve

Reply to
Steve

Steering shake after bumps is generally caused by the wrong drag on the swivel pins. There's quite a complex process involved to get the preload right, as it involves measuring the drag on the links without the track rods / ends on and with the seals removed. If you find when checking the track rod ends they are knackered, and the swivel seals need replacing (they generally do...) It'd be worth setting it properly using a spring newton meter on the eye with the track rods removed (take a look in a Haynes or LR manual for a full description. )

It actually works fine to set the preload manually. If you jack up one corner at a time, and grab the top and bottom of the wheel and feel for any up down play. (You can get an assistant to put the footbrake on to check it isn't the wheel bearings). Then simply remove one shim at a time 'til there's no play anymore. Whilst you're messing about with the shims, check the top swivel pin too, if you've got FWHs it's probeably really corroded and will be the cause of the play...

Once you've done this on both sides head out for a test drive, and see how the shakes are. You might need to remove another shim to gain a bit more preload.

To locate the clunks, its good to get an assistant to turn the wheel whilst you crawl around and look for movement in all the various joints. The steering box can come loose on the bulkhead too, or the whole bulkhead can be loose, especially after a rebuild. Doesn't cause clunks but you do get more prenounced (sp?) wander.

Having the tracking wrong sometimes accentuates the amount of wander, so its worth setting that once you've replaced any crap TREs.

Play in the steering coulumn can be removed by adjusting the adjuster on the side of the esteering box (looks like an oil level plug). Loosen off the not outside it and then screw the square peg in to remove the slack.

As you've owned a well set up IIa in the past I assume you'll know when it's right, as even when properly set up they wander a lot...

All the best, and if you need more info let me know.

Andy

Reply to
Andy Warner

Thanx for the advice guys. albeit some bits exceed my technical knowledge. I will say though that the wheel never shakes it always feels solid it just pulls me left then right over slighly bumpy tarmac. but does make loud clunks when turning the steering wheel more that a turn or when turning whilst under power. same kinda clunks as it does when going over bigger bumps. Ill try and find out more about what youve said . see if i can get my head round it 8)

Thanx again J

Reply to
Jason Hall

Typing with the panache and velocity of that 13-fingered banjo-picking, slightly-ingrown not-too-handsome child prodigy from Deliverance, Andy Warner tippety-tapped his way through...

Railko bushes (swivel pins) Check these last - but do check them

Balljoints in steering & play in steering@steering wheel - most likely - see how much free play you have when stationary (2wd,on flat, in neutral,handbrake & footbrake off)

Suspension bushes - cheap & easy - polyurethane - fit & forget

Axle u-bolts (unusual, but possible)

Broken major leaf in spring(s)

Remove front shocks for clunk test. (or shake them and see if they rattle - most shock bushes are pants and fail far quicker than in the old days...

Replace swivel seals anyway if you're removing them - cut through the seal, prise gently sideways (so it looks like one coil of a spring) and slip over the axle. Fit with the slit pointing upwards. Anyone else done this? Works no probs.

Engage fwh (if fitted) at least once a week, Prevents any problems, and they work when you actually need them.

Buy a full set of grease-nippled balljoints (£25 - not oe, QH or similar - or buy 'oe' quality from ind.supplier (now with no nipples, carefully tap back of bj for nipple - grease at least weekly. Copperease threads on 'threaded bar' - NOT threads on top of taper (Copperease should NEVER be used on any torque-critical threads as it allows over-torquing - use a light oil - 5/10/15wt (WD-40 - its only use(less POS) - Plusgas is _the_ best 'spray-spanner' by a mile - also only light oil on studs - even more critical on wheel studs - constant heating & cooling dries copperease out and one day you _will_ shear a stud.

Incorrect (Make that mismatched) tyre pressures will make you vehicle pull (front end) or drift (rear) towards the lower-pressured tyre side - more drag - it should be consistent to either side (not both).

Shake or vibration more likely to be buckled wheel(s) or incorrect balancing. 5-hole adapter should be used when balancing as centre hole quite often isn't central in wheel. Weave/wander is more usually caused by worn balljoints / incorrect toe-in (check tracking - but only after everything else in steering/suspension is checked/ok) /slack bearings or yes, those damned bushes. Your 'garage' is taking the p*ss. Instead of replacing a wheelbearing (did they really?) they should have found your problems.

Check the width of your shims. On some vehicles not all are the same thickness. Mix & match to reduce clearance. I've had several aftermarket kits with this.

After test-drive, pick up front end and check again - everything 'settles' or 'beds in'

Remove the shocks first - takes 2 mins. Or grab shock and try to twist it. (top & bottom of shock). Leaf springs have inherent damping qualities and you will probably never notice that they're missing!

Buy a prybar/crowbar/pinchbar. Check vertical play.(braced on steerin bar/arms on hub). Ensure all split pins are in place (or nyloc nuts)

Remove the play at the steering wheel with this adjuster (not the slack in the adjuster) - A little play is ok (it's a LR- but 1/2" no probs on my machine)

Check you have matched pairs of tyres on either axle - I don't mean identical, I mean don't mix crossplies with radials on the sameaxle. Current thinking (unless it's changed again) is older tyres/crossplies on front - understeer warns of grip limits, rather than rear end breakaway. _But_ my thinking ( in line with previous gov't-approved specs) is that because crossplies 'let go' in a far more progressive manner, you should fit them on the rear (the warning will be more subtle than the grip/nogrip with radials, you can have fun at much lower speeds, and the extra grip from the front end should be just that : grip. - like driving on ice (same theory) and you'll stop a hell of a lot quicker with radials on the front.

It could even be play at the rear - lateral? twist due to bushes (suspension, not Railko (swivel)) / U-bolts/ bearings

My IIa doesn't. AAAgh! Did I get a "Monday Morning/Friday Afternoon special"? Trust my luck. Everyone else gets a traditionally built one, and Mugsy here gets one they didn't finish properly.....

Sorry Andy - this isn't meant to be a "you're wrong, I'm right" (it might look a bit like that)- we build (&run) fast series LRs and they have to be 'tight'.and I was just trying to offer an alternative view/ my experiences

O O 1 Strange Rover O O | 1 Hang Over | O :-o O Weallhatebillgates would be found at hotmail

Reply to
weallhatebillgates

"Jason Hall" wrote in news:V5Soc.228$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe1-gui.server.ntli.net:

These are the exact same symptoms in the D90 I bought last year. Quite unnerving! I let the seller drive the vehicle back to his home, then had a nerve wracking 150 mile drive up the A9 to get it back to my own home after I'd bought it on the guess that the problem could be fixed!

I'd agree the diagnosis so far. My problem turned out to be trailing arm bushes and swivel preload, neither rocket science if you are reasonably mechanical.

If doing the bushes (assuming the 88 has 'em!), burn them out the old ones rather than attempting to cut them out and get your friendly garage to press the new ones in. The swivels are fiddly but not difficult. There's a page which tells you how at

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also
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Hope this helps,

Derry

Reply to
Derry Argue

The clunking sounds like a definite problem that should be (fairly) easy to find. Most likely tie rod or drag link ball joints, shackle bushes or loose u-bolts, and the last two could be front or back. But could be any of the other suggestions. JD

Reply to
JD

It doesn't!! Only there on coil sprung ones I'm afraid!! The only bushes on the front end of a leaf sprung are one the springs/shackle mounts and shock absorbers. Unless totally dead, thery're unlikly to be the cause of the problem. I did once get some quite good knocking when the U bolts worked loose on the back axle. Very unlikely unless the springs have been recently changed!!

Reply to
Andy Warner

Not at all! I agree with what you're saying. You've probably sorted out lots more than me!! As for the steering shake, I didn't meen vibration/ wobble, proably shouldn't have used the word shake... Meant more of not knowing where to go after a bump...

As for the following the road / wander I've never driven one yet that is as good as say a range rover in terms of holding the wheel still and it going where you want it to, even with the swivel preloads/tracking/tyre pressures to the book following a rebuild. I think its something to do with the castor angles. Its just that some people will complain about the steering in a perfect 90 after driving a car - its all relative, and using the IIa as a reference was just meant to help with what to be expected - not car like preciseness / lack of "interaction" witht the road surface!!

Andy

Reply to
Andy Warner

where are you based.

andy

:25 +0100, "Jas>

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Reply to
Andy

Aye i know what u mean. Many friends drove my series 2a and were shocked at how different from a car they feel. I personally love that. It feels like its actually you thats doing the driving. I like having OD on the Series 3 too.

Problem is i literally dare not take it over 25mph or it scares the life out of me . My wife refuses to drive it at all and its our only vehicle at the moment.

I took it to another garage yesterday. Reason for that was the mechanic worked for MOD on land rovers for 20 years. He said the first thing to try before i throw any more money at it is to swap the front wheels for the back. and opposite sides. He said that cured many in the past that you `just couldnt Aim` so im trying that first but as it clunks loudly when i turn the steering wheel i think its gonna take more than that. Gonna go talk with him on monday and take with me printouts of you guys advice. Wish i was a mechanic as im poor and garages are sooo good at ripping people off 8(

Ill update u

Jason

Reply to
Jason Hall

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