What Causes Head Gaskets to Go - Is it avoidable?

In general terms, some engines are more likely to fail than others, but beware urban myths about which ones. It's popular for the Saloon Bar Experts to slag of particular manufactuers, e.g. Rover & Land Rover, whereas the 3.0L Trooper engine never gets a mention despite being utterly crap, likewise Mercedes Sprinters which will crack their heads somewhere around 100,000 miles.

If you do a google search for this, you'll find plenty of info. It would seem that there is a consensus that thrashing the Freelander will lead to trouble, whereas when driven sedately will cause far fewer problems. As with all Land Rovers, some never give any trouble, some are an utter pain, for no apparent reason (that the owners will admit to - it's often amazing what the *real* story is after we've after we've done a repair, e.g. a 300Tdi Discovery that magincally melted itself, the ex-owner only admitting afterwards that he'd driven 20 miles with no water after an acccident had holed the radiator)

Giving any engine stick until it is warmed up is a Bad Thing, less so on modern engines though.

Our LDV van blew its top after a belt failure, and the entire world told me it would be scrap. Got it skimmed and all is well (lucky though, I have to admit).

Personaly, I'm of the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" school, but there's no saying I'm right.....

Richard

Whilst I have no experience of the K series engine in a freelander or in a rover, I do know that when its in the Lotus Elise it can blow tops quicker than it shreds tyres.

I think it is largely irrelevent as to what vehicle that particular engine is in and more to do with the specific type of head gasket, block and head construction and coolant levels.

As far as I know the K series problem is related to the volume of coolant (water) (or lack of it!) in the block. As the "full" volume is so low, any coolant loss quicly leads to problems because of the thermal properties and construction of the engine.

So, as Richard says... "If it aint broke, dont fix it" AND make sure you are always topped up with water - Then all should be OK.

J>What is people's experience. Is it 'abuse' or inevitable on a

There's only one particular variant of the Elise that has that reputation, it might be the 111s, I can't quite remember. Other than that they've got a good rep. Elises get slagged off because they're British (more or less), a strange disease we seem to have in this country.

Yep, your right Ian.. It the Elise with the K series Engine. Several variants of it over the last few years, ranginf from 110bhp - 160bhp (from memory) - Including the 11S. The only reason they have a habbit of killing heads is the leaks in the pipework that go un-noticed...for a while!

The best Elise by far is the 190bhp 111R - That uses the Toyota Engine and is yummy!!

All in all though they are a truly brilliant machine.

J>>

'The 1.8 Freelander engines are obviously a bit prone to it but the same engine didn't have problems in the Rover cars so this would indicate because the Freelander is heavier and the engine is working harder there is a much greater chance of it going.'

Not quite true, the Freelander, Rover MGF and Lotus all use the K series lump and all had head gasket problems - crap engine

Lee

-snip-

Doesn't the above only apply to the 3.0 trooper - the 3.1 being OK? I thought the problems with the 3.0 were solved by some recalls covering injectors and another problem?

My experience of the pug engines says the same. The ones in the old

504 and the later ax were all wet liners with paper gaskets at the bottom. If you disturbed the seal there when easing the head off then the chance of sealing it again is negligible. I think some engines (504 pug) were well worth taking the rockers off and re torquing (stretch bolts too).

AJH

It would seen the 3.1 is a fix for the 3.0's problems. 3.1's seem fine.

Richard

AJH wrote in news:ju3nn11ofg4babj4p24k84jpvquaer96rn@

4ax.com:

If ever I took the head off a 504, I'd replace the bolts. That was a common failure as the bolts would stretch and not take a torque. I don't think there was anything wrong with the 504 engine if it was treated properly, but it was a bit exacting it what it considered "proper"!

I took the matter up with Peugeot and it may have been coincidental that soon after they only supplied head gaskets with a new set of bolts.

Derry

So what should I do... here's what i think...

Refill coolant now - with new and a known amount of antifreeze (and distilled water) , also find out if a 'header' is needed when filling to prevent air bubbles (which may relate to the pug 405 TD engine)

Do a compression test now (would like to do this anyway - I dont expect it to show up problems)

When I do valve clearances/timing belt check the torque of the engine bolts - should I undo then re-do them to check they are moving OK, or just chack the max torque (or torque + angle?) Should I put new bolts in? I'll also consider putting a new gasket in - probably not much more work from this point.

Finally there is a simple adjustment I can make to up the power by upping the boost- maybe from 0.6 to 1 bar - will these measures be enough (definately new gasket and bolts?) to hold it together for another 100K miles?

Thanks - I'm about to probably buy a 3.1TD trooper (hoping it can tow my 2.1t trailer better than a Jeep can - I can't afford another 110 at present). I thought the 3.1 predated the 3.0?

I'd just check they don't need any tightening to the correct torque, prior to stretch bolts the bolts needed checking after the first

500miles and I guess a lot didn't get checked.

Unless you know the gasket is leaking I would not disturb the bolts (apart from tightening them if they are not correct).

Just what I advised against if the engine has wet liners.

If you worry about a weak head gasket leave the boost alone.

AJH

The 1.8 is prone to gasket failures wherever it finds a home. Just one look at the gasket, noting the width between cylinders and galleries gives a clue as to why. Those spindely long 'through bolts' don't inspire much confidence in me either.

All engines should be warmed before subjecting to heavy load, even at low revs. Highly stressed engines, especially those known to blow head gaskets should be driven especially carefully when cold. The reason is that metal expands when hot and contracts when cold. It is not the relitive movement that is especially important as that is usually catered for. It is the fact that usually the maximum clamping force of the head is not achieved until both head and block are expanded by heat. In the case of the 1.8 I suspect that those long bolts expand reitively more than traditional short studs and perhaps the engine is always prone to gasket failure even when hot. There is also very little coolant in these engines. It is probably the combination of factors that cause the undoubted propensity to blow.

Huw

Yes the 3.1 is older and indirect injection. Before that there was the direct injection 2.8. AFAIK the 3.1 is fairly bomb proof apart from a higher than average rate of water pump seizures resulting in fans through rads. Not a major disaster as disasters go. If you want disasters the 3.0 is a monster albeit not on a grand life-threatening scale.

Huw

Thanks Huw - Do you happen to know if the 3.1 is a much better engine than the old 2.8? You can pick up old troopers (and others) with the

2.8 engine for nearly nothing, although I like the Bighorn looks...but they will cost me about £3k (still less than a newish 110 would).

Both engines are capable of 250,000 miles or more in the right hands. I have seen examples of this. The older square troopers with the 2.8 are a dying breed due to age and chassis corrosion more than power-train failure. The newer 3.0 engine can be a disaster in the best of hands.

Huw

People Hi,

I guess this is now an ISUZU related topic (not that I have any problem with it)

But can we also get back into what may trigger a head gasket or a cylinder head to fry and how to avoid this?

Especially when alloy cylinder heads are concerned (where most of the problems tend to appear AFAIK)

I think having the cylinder head checked for flatness and then properly tightening the head bolts and replacing them is a very good measure when you happen to remove the cylinder head and reinstalling it. Any other advice?

Take care Pantelis

not just in your country. the british cars cop a bit of slagging over here in Aus too. I'm holding up the fort telling everyone that the poms make great cars, but sometimes i don't know why i bother. every time i look at that stupid 2.6 litre 6 cylinder motor in my series 3 i say to myself "What were they thinking."

Sam.

I don't think that it is closely related to head material. My old 110 with cast head did pop a gasket once. It is the only time the head has been off. Mind you, cast iron heads are less likely to be severely damaged when the gasket does go but having said that the alloy head in my old Shogun 2.5 diesel went and it too suffered no damage and went for a long time afterwards.

Drivers should have a 'feel' for their drive and detect and rectify any faults immediately and hopefully before any collateral damage occurs.

Huw