Toyota's Lagging Lexus and Scion Brands

Looks like the two best selling Lexus models are still modified Camrys. That's understandable. GS is a zombie and essentially nobody wants the LS.

"When it comes to Lexus, the issue is pretty clear: The luxury brand is far too dependent on just two of its nine models. The ES330/350 sedan and RX350 line account for two-thirds of sales. The GS sedan lineup—rear-wheel-drive sedans meant to take on German brands—haven't caught on, selling just 3,500 cars this year. "Lexus needs to find a way to get more consideration and higher sales volume for some of these other models, which haven't seemed to hit the mark like the other two," says Jim Hall of 2953 Analytics, a Birmingham (Mich.) design and marketing consultancy.

Inaba sees two problems he needs to tackle: First, he says, Toyota has been making too many decisions about new models and designs in Japan. "We are becoming more regionally focused now and pushing decisions down to the places where the vehicles will be sold," he said. To that end, several "global" job titles have been eliminated. Second, he believes Toyota's vehicle designs must be jazzed up. "It's been a fair criticism that our designs do not have enough excitement," he said.

The GS, notes consultant Hall, has been a very good sedan, but it takes on neither the BMW 3 Series nor the Mercedes E Class in size, performance, or price. "It's in the middle and that can be a tough place to be," Hall says. "That car needs to take on one or the other in sales volume for Lexus to grow." Unit sales this year for five of Lexus' nine product lines will total less than 10,000 each."

The GS has neither the performance nor the advanced engineering of Mercedes and BMW. Just how is it going to compete? No wonder it doesn't sell. The ride felt pretty mundane to me. Do you like the GS ride?

The LS isn't a modified Camry.

Do you just babble on about random s*it only when you're drunk, or do you also do it when you're sober, too?

No doubt. Lexus isn't known as the "Japanese Buick" for nothing.

If they compete with BMW and M-B, does that mean they give the GS s***ty build quality and crappy materials (M-B) and overall crappy reliability, especially after 3 years/75K miles (both)?

Toyota builds boring cars that JUST PLAIN WORK, and they DO WELL the job they've been built to do. To many, that's more than they've seen out of any car maker.

I will say this: take the damn lawyers out and shoot them, and build the cars the way they need to be built. If you take the nanny factor out of the Toyota lineup, you might have Hondas.

It seems like he's resentful full time. A classic attention-seeking troll. My guess is the reason he's so miserable isn't really anything Lexus has done, but some restraining order keeps him from the real object of his scorn - and I bet the guy or girl who ruined his life probably drives a Lexus!

You seem to have ignored the IS line.

You are kidding right - Put an ES350 and a Camry side by side. Only an idiot would by the ES-350. Before the Venza, the RX-whatever at least looked unique. Now it looks like an over-priced Vensa. Toyota is doing the same stupid stuff GM did - trying to sell expensive luxury models that are thinly diquised version of mass market sedans. People aren't stupid (well at least many aren't).

Ed

Ed

So has almost everyone else.....

Ed

In message , john writes

True, but it beats both German brands hand down for reliability. Of course, if Americans change cars every two or three years on a rotating contract, then reliability isn't really important, but over here in the UK where cars tend to be bought outright and kept for longer, the situation changes.

If he wants a feature set that's not available on the Camry, he will.

Think of the Lexus line as just another trim level. People buy mid- and high-level Camry trim lines all the time. ES is just another notch higher.

I have a flash for you: Toyota did that starting in 1990. Are you new to the concept? None of this is news.

And it speaks to Toyota's (and Honda's, and Nissan's and GM's, and...) efforts at (drum roll, please) price discrimination, which Toyota most definitely did NOT invent.

Mines working fine, except after 9 years it needs a battery. That is getting swapped on Friday. Only the European 200 model and a bit low on grunt compared to the Saab and Toyota turbos I've been used to in the past, but comfy and reliable and still looks good after those 9 years.

What about Infiniti, Lincoln, Buick, etc?

The ES-300 is based on the Camry platform, but is a different car. Even more so than the Cimmaron was different from a Cavalier...

Keep smoking that crack, buddy.

Look into the home model that's sold as the ES-300 here. IIRC it was once sold here as a Corona MKII.

I was referring to an earlier post that said that none of the Lexus line was selling well. On my drive to and from work each day, I see more ISes than I do Acura TSXes or TLs and about the same number of current generation MB C-classes.

Ditto...well except where there are actually different models from the mass market models. Some Buicks don't have Chevrolet equivalents (or at least that used to be true). And certainly some Infiniti models don't have Nissan equivalents (at least in the US). As for Lincoln...well I suppose the MKS is unique (or was before the revised Taurus) and I could almost justify it instead of a Ford, but as for the rest of the Lincoln line-up...I'll buy a Ford (or maybe a Mercury since Ford and Mercrys are priced about the same). Only Cadillac seems to be trying to differentiate their luxury cars from the mass model versions (sell except for the ridiculous over priced Escalade).

Ed

I can't ever remember seeing even one IS, but then maybe I just thought it was another generic Toyota. I suppose they are fine cars, but I don't see why anyone would buy something so dull for so much money. I can get an equally competent dull car for a lot less.

Ed

Like the Camry/ES300, they are built on similar platforms.