odd, because the ones I have driven are the three second gen ones, the 05 would do late 50s, as would the next one (07) the 10 version even when not fully run in was giving over 60 when used on a 1200 mile return motorway run to scotland and for most of that I was at an indicated 80ish. and on the way the back was full of heavy stuff, as was the passenger !! Mind you, Clarkson claimed they would only do 25 or something!
Like I say, you need to actually use one to decide if you like them, one of my favourite moments was when I was stuck in a roadworks traffic jam, with irregular bits of movement, for 25 minutes of moving about one mile the engine did not run !! It was also interesting that I got better MPG overall than the owner !
I like them, I like gadgets, I do not think they are economical as a new purchase, but used they are a real bargain, just like my wife's Lexus !!
Obviously they're great if you spend a lot of time in traffic jams, but when you are moving the energy still ultimately comes from the petrol engine, so on a long motorway cruise with no jams I don't see how a petrol hybrid (even if it is Atkinson cycle) could be more economical than a modern diesel of similar size and performance.
As, unlike a lot of people, Tim doesn't hate Rovers, he might do well to look for a newer one with the L-series engine. It's got the advantages of direct injection without most of the DIY-hostile complexity associated with common rail and dual mass flywheels etc and has a good reputation for performance, economy and reliability even in the face of neglect.
that seems quite similar to the figures I have seen in use. However the site has some very strange results which are obvious rubbish, so probably safest to ignore it, such as the ferrari enzo at 82.9mpg and the hummer at
I don't think they are in some cases and whilst Toyotas reliability might mask any extra issues born out of the extra complexity (an IC system /and/ an electric system etc) I think the 'savings' (outside the traffic thing and nil TAX / congestion charges etc) can only be gained by things like regen braking. That and maybe running the IC engine at near peak efficiency using the electric motor for those extra bursts of power that would otherwise have to come from a bigger IC engine (as you say).
;-)
I only dislike things that are unreliable or costly / complicated to repair myself but outside of this Rover (that cost me £100 in 2003) they either haven't previously 'come along' or had any particular appeal. I've never owned anything 'foreign but not because I don't like them. But you are right, I don't have any stigmas when it comes to cars (including the Prius) as long as they fulfil my needs. [1][2]
The only thing that would worry me abut spending any real money on a Rover (as our 'main' car) right now would be the spares situation (unless that's been resolved)? In the past it's been things like the K series engine that might have put me off. If we want to continue any stereotypes I probably drive like 'a Rover driver' these days (well, AFA top speed is concerned. I do still like to 'make good progress' but owning a GPS with an ETA function has shown how frenetic overtaking would probably only lead to an early grave. ;-(
I think I've seen a Rover estate that looked quite useful.
For me they would be more the 'my Dads selling his cheap and it's very tidy' type purchases rather than me going out looking for one specifically. Having said that this 218SD has been a real workhorse and whilst not fully neglected it certainly hasn't been pampered either.
Cheers, T i m
[1] Some elderly friends just had their old_but_tidy Audi 80 written off because the bottom ball joint broke away (possible post pothole encounter?) and were looking for something 'smaller, economical and auto (for her)'. We were chatting and Skodas were mentioned and I detected a real stigma from both of them re the idea of having one, in spite of them not being anything to do with the models that may have given them the bad rep? They ended up with a Polo 1.4 auto that may very well contain some parts also used in a Skoda (could it?). ;-)
As long as a Skoda was typically cheap / easy / reliable to run / maintain I would be quite happy to hear such stigmas still exist because then I might get it cheaper and would run it into the ground so would care less about resale values. ;-)
[2] And this is the bloke who still has a Messerschmitt KR200, a Enfield 8000 Electric Moke and a Rickman Ranger and who shares a Belmont with the Missus. ;-)
since it relies on unverifiable data it is questionable as to accuracy. It shows much the same as I found for the Prius, so probably the ones with a high number of entries have ironed out any quirky irregularities.
If you are talking about the site in general then of course you could well be right.
If you are talking about our figures then they too can only be as accurate as the petrol pump, the odometer, the data recorder and the app itself. However I guess you could rule out the app with a spreadsheet and let's assume my Missus can copy stuff down accurately then it's just down to the (presumably calibrated) fuel pump and our odometer.
Yup, if everyone else pokes in similarly acquired data and as you say, over sufficient data points then it should all balance out.
It also seems to be about right for those of our bikes that are on the list:
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models and my runabout)
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I have now)
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she has now)
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seem to be 400s and ours is a 250 and her runabout) And what I had before the BMW:
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Cheers, T i m
p.s. We used to go out on two bikes (or sometimes 3 if daughter was on her MZ250) together for 'fun' but with a combined mpg of 25 it all started to get a bit expensive. 100 mile ride costing ~£25 to go nowhere .. ;-(
AFAIK body parts could be quite difficult to get even before they went bust, but I think the 400 hatchback in particular has a lot of panels in common with the Honda it was based on. I think there were enough Rovers sold to create a decent supply & demand in 3rd party parts.
The only production Rover estate after the Montego was the 75; the diesel version of those uses a common rail BMW engine. You might be able to find a Honda Accord or Civic estate with the L-series engine, but they're probably rare and I doubt you'd want one badly enough to look that hard :).
Yeah, Rover bought in Peugeot engines for them which were pretty good for their era.
Quite probably the entire drivetrain :-).
I agree, we're looking for another car now, and an Octavia estate would be ideal (except the only one I saw last time I looked was a 2.0 8v petrol which seems to provide 1.6 levels of performance for 2.0 levels of mpg).
I'm hoping they can find the rubber bush for the end of the rear anti-roll bar on mine (MOT fail).
I also need to sort the o/s brake caliper as it keeps sticking but it seems you can't get a service kit but an exchange caliper is (only?) £25+ Vat. (Having said that mate said the last kit he bought was £17 in any case. Not sure if that was / side or both).
Quite. ;-)
I'll tell em. ;-)
Oh dear.
I was just wondering if they did a Corsa estate as daughters 150K 1.2 Comfort still seems to be doing ~50 mpg and whilst they do they don't seem to in this country?
Meriva? Or a Fabia estate :-). But if economy is the most important factor I'd rather have a diesel and take my chances with expensive repairs rather than an underpowered petrol car.
Both my Dad and Niece have them and I've driven Dads a bit. Whilst they are quite nice and probably fairly flexible I'm not sure what they are like to work on, especially under the bonnet. Saying that I have replaced his reversing light switch but luckily that was on the top of the gearbox and easily accessible.
I've seem my mate changing pollen filters on that shape of vehicle and sometimes it seems to have to take a lot of stuff off (inc the wiper system in one case I think) to do something so simple?
Yup, no probs with that.
My 83 2L GL Sierra estate seemed pretty quick (because I think it was quite light compared to today's vehicles) but wasn't very good economy wise (~33 mpg on a run)? However it would pull like a train and has carried and towed some stuff it probably shouldn't have been asked to (like a Jaguar Cougar kit car on a 4 wheel trailer). Not sure it would be considered 'powerful by some people but for some, 'adequate' isn't enough. ;-)
I've sometimes had to drop the Rover into third getting the 350kg folding caravan up a moderate hill but you can't have it all ways eh (and it is tired bless it). ;-)
I'm not sure about the diesel thing either. Whilst I like the fact that when I touch the key on the diesel Rover it just starts at ticks over at exactly the same RPM, hot or cold, summer or winter I don't like the higher cost of the fuel nor the smell (fresh or burnt).
Someone mentioned that Honda don't make a diesel as they say they can do as well or better (mpg / pollution) with petrol? Is that at the cost of that raw diesel torque do you feel then?
For us the whole thing would be a difficult to predict balance / compromise between what we could (or want to) spend on something we are going to leave on a public road and what we would have to pay to buy, keep (tax / insurance), run (economy / parts) versus how long it would take for payback.
For example, I used to use the motorbikes quite a bit because the difference in MPG between what we had then (Sierra) and the bikes was marked. When the Rover came along with comparable mpg the 'agg' of having to get kitted up and out in the elements with little load carrying capacity wasn't worth it most of the time (as long as I was going /away/ from London and outside the rush hour anyway).
I haven't driven one yet but that 1.4 diesel Fiesta estate thing could be close to what we might consider ideal (a mate has one and says it's £30 TAX and 50+ mpg? He bought his cheap as a Cat D write off though).
What I meant was, if you want 50+mpg you have to either have a very slow and small petrol car or a diesel with at least 50% more BHP and loads more torque (or a hybrid).
Newer diesels start even more easily because of direct injection. You don't usually smell your own exhaust unless you have a leak and I prefer the smell to an old petrol engine (mind you, burnt oil from a diesel smells even worse than from a petrol engine, but they tend not to wear to that point before the rest of the car falls apart). You could try veg oil (generally not OK for common rail (or PD?) or Lucas CAV pumps, but OK with Bosch pumps) :).
A few years ago we had a 1.2 Corsa for a few weeks while our Rover 420Di was in the garage after being the victim of a hit & run (a lorry judging by the height of the damage, it was very nearly a write off). We noticed we were spending more on fuel despite the higher cost of diesel and the Rover being a bigger, faster car.
Honda do make diesels, but only the 2.2 which I think they started making round about 2005 (remember the ads?). In the late 90s they used the Rover L-series I've been banging on about, but I think there was a gap in between when they had no diesels. I do like the extra torque you get with a diesel and they're inherently more efficient than spark ignition (new technologies are emerging for compression-ignition based petrol engines) so you also get more power for a given mpg. The main pollution issue with diesels is particulates (soot), but some have filters now. I think I read that they produce more NOx than a new petrol engine, but over their lifetime they balance out because a petrol engine tends to deteriorate more. CO2 is lower from a diesel, but not by as much as the difference in MPG, because diesel has more carbon by volume than petrol.
Funny you should say that because daughter, coming to her first car in the form of the Ka from a motorbike found that a 'big' problem too. Of course compared with the generally unfettered view you get from a touring / commuting motorbike [1] most cars with roofs have this problem to some degree but the Ka did seem quite bad.
I think she finds the Corsa a bit better but there are times you can lose quite a large object behind some of these A posts (and I agree, the Mariva is bad but because I'm long legged and generally have most seats at full rearward travel and partially reclined (for the headroom) it can also be an issue with the door post. ;-)
I probably look like a pigeon trying to duck and stretch to see safely on some stuff. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
[1] With a sports bike you are often looking through your own eyebrows and on a cruiser you are looking past your own feet (oh, and if you are a Mod you are probably looking at your own reflection in 50 mirrors). ;-)
But do they /still/ make diesels though? Or more accurately do /they/ currently make cars with diesels in (as opposed to making diesel engines for other people).
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