Punctures & Repairs

I've just had a puncture repaired- thankfully no 'drama' - I noticed the problem before the tyre was 'flat', inflated it, drove a few hundred yards to a local place, which did the repair. The only 'niggle', it looks like the offending item was a screw off my garage floor!

I happened to comment to the chap who did the repair something like 'That is the only one I can have on that tyre.' He corrected me and said that 3 were allowed, subject to positioning. I've not checked the rating of the tyre (it is on a 4x4) but my understanding was that only one was permitted. Have the rules changed?

Next question. I know proper type places, like the one I used, remove the tyre and patch from the inside etc. with a 'mushroom' like patch. These have a patch on the inside and a stalk that fills the hole.

However, many years ago (in the 1960s) I recall my father having a DIY kit which you poked a plug, dipped in glue, into the hole from the outside. My understanding is these were banned - at least that is what I was told in the 1970s.

BUT I see similar kits are now available and there are numerous videos of them being used. They seem popular with motorcyclists. I'd have thought the last think the latter would want is a dodgey repair!

Are these DIY kits legal/any good? Obviously they would only work (in theory) for 'simple' holes of limited size and in the 'right' location- on the main part of the tread.

The modern kits seem slightly different from the 1960s one I recall but the essential principle is the same- a rubber like 'bung' dipped in glue, inserted from the outside in the hole, after the screw, nail, etc is removed, and the hole cleaned. The only obvious differences are the colour- and the modern bungs are longer and seem to be 'doubled over' when inserted.

Reply to
Brian Reay
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When I read tales like this I really wonder if it's just me ... who has been sent back from the future or that 'most people' are still very much stuck in the past ...? ;-(

When I hear about people having punctured repaired manually I wonder if they still also start their cars manually with a starting handle or have to keep the fuel pressure up using a hand pump as they drive? ;-)

We have several computers in most cars these days ... we have cars that automatically call for help in the case of an accident ... that park themselves or stop if something steps in front of them, yet, 'most people' still seem to be living in the stone age when it comes to dealing with punctures? ;-(

This seems to be especially strange given how many cars don't automatically come with a spare wheel any more.

Now, I'm not saying everyone should do as I do and treat all their vehicles with the likes of Punctureseal, but when I think about it I wonder why they don't?

I guess 'they don't know about it' could be the answer from many ... or, because of myths or out_of_date information, aren't aware how well the good stuff works or how easy it is to apply or how cheap it is given the inconvenience of a puncture etc, especially when spread over the lifetime of an average tyre.

So it's sorta got to the point now why when anyone asks about or mentions 'punctures' I'll just shrug ... like someone listening to an .MP3 player might when someone asks where you can get audio cassettes from. ;-)

Keep banging them rocks together guys. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Obviously much of the above is said with tongue-in-cheeks but I'm still intrigued why I am happy to rely / use the likes of Punctureseal and many others aren't (or don't, and many do of course)? Don't get me wrong, I'd hate for someone to also rely on it and it not work for them but maybe it's one of those things where you would have to actually experience it in use for yourself ... to have done thousands of miles on what would have been a 'punctured' tyre with no ill effect or even the loss of one PSI to 'get' what it's all about?

If the likes of Continental tyres can offer a tyre pre-treated with a puncture sealing gel, I'm guessing such must be up to muster and given the RW difficulty of knowing if the tyre you picked up in your own garage, that got thrown out a few yards later, the puncture sealed and you weren't aware of any of it suggests that it's ok as a long term puncture solution?

'Of course' any tyre/ sealant manufacturer would 'recommend' you have a punctured tyre checked, but how soon do we ever know we have a puncture (pre TPS) and how many miles might we do with the object still stuck in there or the tyre slowly deflating?

Reply to
T i m

I know about it, I even have some (or the equivalent that came with the car) but I don't and wouldn't use it. I don't trust it, the car has a TPMS with sensors in the wheels, ...... I bought a 'space saver' spare but, on this occasion, didn't need to use it. The tyre wasn't totally 'flat', I have a decent compressor so could inflate it, and drive the

1/4 mile or so to a local tyre place who repaired it for £15. The car is new so the tyre has done about 1200 miles- I didn't want to right it off unless I had to.

When I went to collect the car, there was another 4x4 having a tyre changed. He'd driven on some tyre and ruined it- it had some kind of 'protection' in it an he'd not noticed he had a puncture. I'm not sure what it was (the tyre protection) but he wasn't a happy camper. Again, the tyre had been all but new- although the car wasn't.

Reply to
Brian Reay

I'm not sure there is such a thing as 'an equivalent, especially if it 'comes with the car' Brian. If it 'comes with the car' that sounds like a 'get you home' vinyl gunge and *nothing* like Punctureseal.

You have experience of 'it' to not trust it OOI? I wonder what it is about those who do trust it, how / why they are different? (And we aren't talking a get-you-home gunge here).

If I tell you I used it respectively to repair two punctures on two of my own cars and on one car the tyre continued to be fine till I eventually scrapped the car and the other is on the car we are driving currently, do you believe me? Do you think maybe that I have some sort of magic powers that makes the stuff work for me but not for you for example? I'm just trying to understand ... ;-)

OK, and ... ? The sensors are by the rim and nowhere near the sealant inside the tread (centripetal force takes care of that, if that was your concern)?

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Good idea. There will always be the time where the tyre get's badly damaged etc.

Yes, you said.

Yeah, you said. *Luckily* you were local to home and not on a busy motorway, at night, in the rain, with a caravan on the back.

Quite ... and there was no reason 'to' right it off for a small screw puncture was there? What would have written it off?

?

Doesn't sound like very good 'protection' as it sounds like it didn't 'protect'? This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. People (potentially) comparing apples and pears.

So (in an effort to try to find out *why* people may not use the likes of Puncturseal) you don't trust whatever came with the car so you don't use something different?

Assuming the stuff in the 'other' 4X4 you mentioned failed, how different would that be to the tyre without the sealant OOI?

As I said, I really DGAF if others don't use the likes of Punctureseal, I just wondered *why* they didn't.

Thanks for the feedback. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Say you bought a second hand car and it came fitted with 4 as new tyres that happened to be 'Contiseal' type. If you realised what they were, would you replace them with some 'std' tyres?

If you didn't appear to have a puncture, would you have them checked for punctures?

If you realised you had a puncture, and it sealed itself, would you have it further 'repaired' and if not, how would you feel about them if they didn't exhibit a puncture or any other issues till you finally wore them out?

Reply to
T i m

I had a puncture repaired recently by a long established local place. The usual woodscrew - where do they all come from?

That was done in seconds without removing the tyre.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

We very rarely buy s/h but, if I did, I'm not familar with this type of tyre. Chances are, if a car was fitted with them, I'd avoid it.

Reply to
Brian Reay

I suspect 'mine' was from the garage floor ;-(

That suggests a 'plug' like the one I mentioned in the second part of my OP. I generally wait around for work like this to be done but, this time, I left the car as we were going out. I just assumed it was a traditional repair (wheel off, pull through patch etc) as that is what I've seem for years. I need to pop back to get a quote for some tyres on another car, I will ask how he does repairs.

Reply to
Brian Reay

Pah, bring back solid tyres, they never suffered from punctures.

Reply to
MrCheerful

The repair that Dave mentions is not to the relevant standard, and could lead to legal liability and a massive damages claim if it causes an accident.

British standard BS AU159 sets out the rules for repairs to car tyres. It defines the type of damage that can be repaired and the way that repairs should be carried out.

?One of the most important requirements is that the car tyre has to be removed from the wheel to check for internal damage. If not spotted this could later result in sudden failure. Because of this, externally applied plugs and liquid sealants cannot be thought of as permanent repairs.?

Reply to
MrCheerful

Hehe.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

I was wondering if this was going to be cited as 'the reason' for not using liquid sealants (although I'm not sure you would define a gel as a liquid but let's for the purposes of this discussion) but I don't think it would by most people (who may not look into it that deeply).

So, given one wouldn't generally know that a Puncturseal treated tyre had suffered a puncture, I'm not sure how you would know 'to' then check for internal damage?

What is the likelihood of something like Punctureseal (or Contiseal) 'repairing' a tyre that had suffered some internal damage?

I guess the classic failure mode of a punctured tyre (deflation) does give some positive indication of such a failure but what of the instances where the puncture isn't indicated quickly (and most cars

*not* having TPS systems yet) and they tyre is then driven on at high speed for some distance whilst it slowly deflates and then suffers catastrophic failure (blowout)?

Are we saying that an undetected and therefore untreated puncture is 'legal' (even where there could be damage to the inside of the tyre) whereas a puncture, subsequently / automatically repaired with a 'liquid sealant' (that then lasts for the lifetime of the tyre) would not be?

I wonder how Continental (not an insignificant tyre manufacturer) deal with the legalities of all this with their 'Contiseal' range of tyres?

I know there are tyre gunges and Tyre Gunges and so it would be very difficult for the legislation to differentiate between them, regarding the effectiveness of their abilities to do what it says on the tin.

It is my opinion (only etc) that as long as they do what they say on the tin, then that puts me in a safer position and therefore less likely to be involved, or cause an accident in those instances where the sealant is likely to be able to do it's job.

I have seen instances where the tyre has suffered (say) sidewall damage (both our car and daughters van) and the sealant made no attempt to repair the damage (it simply couldn't, the sealant wasn't where the damage was and the hole far too big).

It would be the same if a tyre suffered major damage after going over say a lump of sharp steel and where the damage is likely to be much worse than a simple nail hole.

Interesting though.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Thank, that seems clear enough and confirms what I thought- for plugs and sealants.

My other concern with sealants, at least on the car this puncture was on, is that it has a TPMS which has sensors in the wheels (as far as I can tell part of the valve). I find it very hard to believe they will like having gunge in their workings.

Reply to
Brian Reay

Isn't that academic, if you have already discounted them because they don't confirm to the relevant rules?

I believe they are, sitting in the well of the wheel.

Why would they get 'gunge in their workings' Brian?

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Yes, snowflakes! IIRC the winner of the very first Isle of Man TT fixed three punctures himself in the course of the race.

Reply to
newshound

Depends on the vehicle, most of the ones I have seen do not have in-wheel sensors, they use the abs sensors to compare wheel rotation speed in order to give a low pressure warning. In-wheel types are usually mounted in the valve assembly, and do not have parts that would be effected by liquid in the tyre, even if it reached the sensor in any quantity. If your system shows you the actual tyre pressure then you will have in-wheel sensors of some type AFAIK

Reply to
MrCheerful

Or fill them with some sort of foam :-)

Reply to
Dan S. MacAbre

Not according to the pictures I've found on the 'net. They seem to have a 'block' behind the valve. Heaven knows want happens when they want to replace the valve as they seem to be in one bit- and they aren't cheap.

As per above, they are part of the valve assembly. I assume there is a small transmitter and battery in there. Others work in different ways but the Mitsubushi ones are as described. The gunge must pass through part of the 'gubbins' as it goes in. I assume the battery must last a long time or perhaps somehow recharges as the wheel turns.

Prices seem to vary from £25 to £50 !

I'm not convinced such 'addons' really add to the driving experience. The car has other 'clever' goodies which are useful, if not essential. I quite like the 'blind spot' warning. You get a 'light' in the door mirror if someone is in your 'blind spot' and a 'beep' if you turn on the indicator at the same time. Obviously, you should check your 'blind spot' but it is a good extra- provided you don't forget to still check. Likewise the camera which give you a 'birds eye view' is rather neat.

Reply to
Brian Reay

I got the missus some external sensors that screw on the end of the valve. I got fed up of her asking me to check the pressure all the time

- low-profile tyres always look flat to her. The display does show the actual pressure, so I assume that the compressed air is directly acting on the sensor. Since the instructions also say that they hold the valve open by pressing on the stem, it seems quite possible that liquid in the tyre could coat the inner surface of these things.

Reply to
Dan S. MacAbre

Mine just give a low warning but they are part of the valve, going by the photos on the internet.

I can't see how the 'gunge' gets into the tyre without passing though the gubbins which senses the pressure but, given you are supplied with 'gunge', may be you are right.

I confess to being 'conservative' in areas like this. I would much prefer a proper spare wheel etc. In the past, I've bought one were available etc (if one wasn't supplied) or got one 'thrown in' to be more exact. For the Smart Car (we tow on a trailer behind the motorhome), I bought a 'space saver' wheel- it fits behind the seat. I also bought one for the Outlander - it will fit under the floor. I had to hunt to find one big enough, the wheels are huge!

I'd possibly use the 'gunge' if I needed to but, unless (as in this case) I was able to inflate the tyre and get to a tyre place), I'd prefer to use the space saver. The Hybrids seem to have 'tight' limits on wheel sizes but the space saver I bought is, more or less, the same size as the standard wheel- within tread wear dimensions.

'Touch wood', punctures aren't that common- I've tried to do a rough count, I think maybe 3 or 4 since about 1999 (using buying a particular car as a marker). I used to do at least 10k miles a year- a lot more for part of that- but less these days- spread across several vehicles.

Reply to
Brian Reay

Don't some of the 'run flat' tyres do that? I recall seeing some with 'balloons' of 'gunge' which burst and then expanded. I assume the tyre was then 'done for' but may be not.

I don't feel the urge to change all the tyres on any of our vehicles to anything 'exotic'- run flat or otherwise. I tend to buy a 'normal' quality tyre and deal with the odd puncture if needed. As for 'low profile' etc., I can't see the attraction. I've never been a 'boy racer' ;-), even in the MX5.

Reply to
Brian Reay

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