Re: Mercedes-Benz hit with suit

I don't know about the composition of alcohol-based fuel, but I can tell you that formaldehyde is an oxidation product of methanol. Thus you would get this if the fuel contains methanol and is incompletely burned.

DAS

--

(probably

JC is a bit of a prat who will say anything to be controversial in order to sell copy. Besides which, he runs a 200hp diesel Land Cruiser having previously owned a 230hp V8 version.

We all know that you can get any power diesel engine you like;-)

Huw

See below.

DAS

--

In news:3fd50661 snipped-for-privacy@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com, Huw being of bellicose mind posted:

One should invite Mr. Jeremy Clarkson to these forums for lessons in creating controversy.

A cursory internet search confirmed your notion of problematic formaldehyde emissions from incomplete methanol "oxydation." So.... what about ethanol? Well.... seems there is some problem with ethanol too. The following link offers an overview of the pure ethanol experiment in Brazil from 1979 to the present.

In news:3fd5088f$0$25665$ snipped-for-privacy@news.dial.pipex.com, Dori Schmetterling being of bellicose mind posted:

Higher resale? LOL NOT the case ANYWHERE in the US.

NOT everybody wants a diesel or anything to do with a diesel here in America. 0-60mph in 10-12 seconds is probably an acceptable minimum from an economy car.

Might be related to currency exchange valuations? Might have something to do with taxes and social programs?

"Philip®" wrote >

I suspect that he would not be able to stand the heat ;-) He doles it out but can he take it back?

Huw

Please, pretend to be someone with more facts than opinions and point out where...

If they're going to be like that "in the short term", they're not how things are...

You make statements with a lot of assumptions that don't stand to even an examinations from afar. For instance, prove that the quality stadards in the US are lower than elsewhere...

So, denying an oil-industry conspiracy to being an apologist and propagandist? Statements like that say a lot about your intellectual honesty...

And Ford, and Fiat, etc...

So it does, doesn't it? Then again, you had to add a "but"...

Really? You posted facts contradicting everything I said, right?

What figures?

Don't cheat, it's 50ppm.

From 2005 and on, the EU mandates 50ppm. 0ppm may be available then, but it's not going to be the norm in any country.

Some vendors may alrady offer it, but it's only going to be mandated by 2006. Right now, it mandates 500ppm as in the US and in Japan, for example.

Using, maybe, considering that Diesel, the major source for PM and NOx in cities, is more of a problem in Europe than elsewhere.

Like AUS. Oh, I see, it must be those bad, bad Aussie oil-companies... :-)

Why "paradoxically"? It couldn't be more reasonable to start to curb at the where the difference will be greater. Or... could it be because it's not a technical choice, but part of the vast oil conspiracy?

Check out newsstand car magazines from such countries and read about the bitching in the lines of "we are the scum of the EU"...

When the arguments vanish, nothing like an ad hominem attack...

Not even for the huge use of Diesel in cars in Europe?

As I said, there are only a couple of FSI engines that use stratified charge. FSI works very well with stoichiometric charges...

Who said it isn't?

Diesel isn't either...

Darn, those oil conspirators managed to not kill us all before we found out about their evil works!

Your confusing methanol with ethanol demonstrates the level of your understanding of the facts...

No, short of arable land and food in Brazil, where the foolishness of using alcohol as a car fuel happened...

Pitiful...

You may not be able to read, but just because something is toxic, it doesn't mean that it's always toxic in any dosage...

Not needed??? You may not recall the abismal decline in power when it was phased out in the US in the early 70s before sophisticated engine management was economically feasible.

Yeah, I'm a stickler for reminding you that you can't tell methanol from ethanol. After all, both are kinds of alcohol, right? You should be able to either of them when making your argument about extracting it from corn or sugar cane, right?

You know only the propaganda of one side. Check out the science and you'll find out that there's no oil conspiracy, honest.

Maybe for you, but in my scale of values, debating confronting ideas is at its highest.

And yours are pathetically gullible.

You may enjoy that fantasy world of yours... Have check out if there isn't an oil executive under your bed?

OK, try to think slower, your brain is overloading and it's showing...

Aldehydes in general, whether it's ethanol or methanol. However, because the use of alcohol as fuel has a limited record, little is known about its effects (Huw, no, it's not a conspiracy by farmers to poison us).

It's more common in turbochargers because usually the high pressures can be achieved more easily with them than with belt-driven superchargers. Typically, boost pressures up to 7PSI (typical for Roots or Lysholm superchargers) can make do without an intercooler, whereas over 15PSI practically mandate one (typical for turbochargers).

point

advantage.

hypothetical

Can you not read?

I have posted figures elswhere. Look them up yourself for I am not going to do your work for you.

intellectual

So again you fail to deny. No need for me to say any more. Readers are generally not of low intelligence and can make their own minds up.

Huw

That's the production output mix for fuels in volume, it doesn't even account for oleofins, for instance.

Diesel, being heavier than gasoline, requires more crude to obtain the same volume. IOW, the yield of Diesel from crude is lower than of gasoline.

Much is known about most aldehides and formaldehide in particular. It is not pleasant stuff. As to its emmission from car exhausts, that is not an area in which I have any knowledge.

Huw

"Neo" wrote >

While the limit is 50ppm the fuel presently available in the UK and large areas of Europe is down to 10ppm.

then,

I can assure you that it will be the norm in the UK and many other areas including Germany.

Again the industry has taken the lead. This is in marked contrast to the USA.

Aha. So now you do concede that we use cleaner fuel.

I am sorry to bring you the news that Australia has cleaned up its act in the last 18 months. I wonder if they still mix diesel with heating oil though? LOL.

which

So you do not deny that those refineries are producing high sulphur fuel. Interesting. You know that it is correct that is why. You prefer to make a play of words than produce facts that contradict mine, as usual.

The EU consists of very many countries, areas of which have only recently emerged from behind the iron curtain. Some areas do indeed use fuel that is substandard by the standards of more developed regions.

Again you choose to deflect rather than answer. LOL.

greater

Certainly not.

don't.

stratified

FSI engines. that is 'direct injection petrol' engines as opposed to the Audi nomeclature, tend to have high levels of particulate emmisions compared with other modern petrol engines used in cars. Modern diesels which meet EuroIV and V will be on a par with petrol engines. Some engines with these standards are already in use. Toyota have recently launched an EuroV compatible engine although this standard will not become compulsory until late 2005 or 2006.

You miss the point, most likely on purpose.

You ignore the point, most likely on purpose. You mentioned intellectaul integrity LOL.

No, it demonstrates a hasty couple of postings.

Rest of content free comments deleted as not worth answering.

Huw

My point is that the net outcome is seldom positive. IOW, the price premium is rarely offset by any other gain in resale value or in fuel economy.

Where, in Europe? Sure, a few. But a 2.0 engine can only be found in compact cars in the US.

Which I don't deny either, but I also stated that it's not the case to justify over 50% of the customers.

If you compare cars of the same overall exterior and interior dimensions and engine size, the US gets definetely the best deal. Bottom line: we get more of a car for less $$$. And I'm not even talking about cost of living, take-home pay, etc...

That's correct. Remeber PV=nRT? If the "P"ressure increases, so does the "T"emperature of a gas.

I think you mean if for the same pressure increase. However, a turbocharger typically reaches higher pressures.

I qouted before the figures from the Audi web site in the UK...