totally OT as always but...

How did the Kia test drive go BTW? I suppose as marketing scum you didn't feel at all guilty about taking them for a ride ;)? I'm tempted to get down there and get some bling readymeals.

I did a module in marketing BTW. It was great seeing the "greeny" types fly off the handle every seminar.

I did a module in Marketing as well. Well, a few of them actually heh.

You're a manager, right? ;)

There are things you cannot just "learn o the job" like learning a new programming language properly. That doesn't mean that you'll have to go to a course - spending evenings at home doing this kind of stuff, reading books, magazines and all that kind of additional does count as training in my book.

Sitting in a room with a bovine stare on your face while the instruction reads out nicked chapters from "XXXX in 24 minutes" doesn't necessarily. But some people do learn better in a classroom setting.

Each to their own - I read a lot of books, but I also go to one conference a year to pick up new ideas and sit in a classroom setting listening to those people who tend to write the books that I'd read.

Just don't fall for the "S*it wage today with a share option package". There was never time for training, unless you paid for it yourself and did it in your time, but the company would constantly pushing to see who had don't what course, so they could push it on the "Available" skills section of the website.

I ended up with a S*it wage today, tomorrow never comes, and they only floated/sold part of the company so I only got part of the share option, then the company did badly, so that part was only worth 10% of what it was supposed to be, then because it did badly I got made redundant and lost my s*it wage.

Heh, I used punctuation and capitalisation though...

Holidays? Sick? You don't find our contractors doing that, they feel like they're losing money. One of 'em had a baby and was back to work in six weeks lol

Senior project planner for a multinational IT company. Not the most exciting job on the planet but I'm good at it, and it pays well.

Yebbut wtf do you actually do? I've heard of people working for the gubmint in shady areas giving out more clue than you have...

Almost, but not quite, 100% wrong. I'm the guy who's solving the hard problems on the computers, and they have been known to dissuade me from talking to people :-) (though, inevitably, a certain amount of management beckons - I'm still avoiding it though)

You say that - but I've actually done learning languages to the depth required on the job more than once.

The first and last language course I went on was called "C++ for non-C programmers". I learned, ooh, about nothing on that week's course I couldn't have learned in about half an hour reading a description of the syntax/structure. What I actually learned about that language I learned on the job. Informally I suppose I went a bit deeper (ever marvelled at Alexandrescu's genius/insanity?), but TBH I never really used a lot of that.

I mostly don't like the word "training" - it reminds me of monkeys. I prefer to learn, not be trained.

If that's a recommendation, which conference?

cheers, clive

My son was born on a Friday and I was back at work on the Monday. Contracting can be tough but the money is pretty good.

Fraser

Yeah, but it wasn't you having the baby...

I investigate stuff, research stuff, recommend courses of action.

Heh. I've just had too many beancounters and managers question the usefulness of continuing training/learning...

That's not necessarily learning them properly though. I've done that with a few (simpler) languages but I'd say that I've only got in-depth understanding those languages that I actually invested the time and effort in to do it properly. Doesn't help that the main language is C++, which is full of subtleties and bear traps for the unwary.

Oh yes. I'm also a big fan of some of the weirder Boost stuff. My main problem is that a lot of people have absolutely no interest in making use of any features in C++ that were discovered after 1993 so I have to dumb down the code I write. Not in all cases but there were a few memorable ones...

Oook oook.

It is a recommendation, only problem is it's half a world away. But if you're doing C++ and you want to have a chat with Bjarne, Herb Sutter and/or Alexandrescu, this is the place to go:

In fact I'm going again this year; the highlight should be a two-day C++ session hosted by Bjarne & Herb.

I had to put up with the complaining. : )

Fraser

Can't argue with you there...

Pretty good - if you like plastic wood! It drives OK, but lacks a bit of feel. They tried selling me a new one (£15k) and then I pointed out their 6 month old demonstrator on the forecourt at £6k.

Aha - there's 'green marketing' for them.

David

As others have said, engineering requires pretty good maths - in fact from the start of uni onwards, it's basically just applied maths. Open Uni is not the easy option - you need serious dedication to get through it. It's a harder option than doing a degree in the conventional way, at least.

I personally stuck it out through the physics degree/PhD/postdoc route, with various electronic engineering and consultancy jobs on the side and now have the best job in the world - I get enough money to do what I want to do and spend my days playing with cool toys. But that's the best job for *me* - most people would probably hate it.

If I were you, I'd look into skilled labour - plasterer, electrician, plumber etc. They'll always be in demand, give you a decent to very good income and are taught as evening classes in colleges everywhere. Even if you never use it, or just help friends/family out at weekends, you'll know that you have a tradeable skill to fall back on. Alternatively, you could look at something like accountancy, but to get decent money for that you need to be certified, which means going to uni for 3+ years and doing a very boring course.

That pretty much covers everything from office junior picking stuff out of Viking Direct and getting someone else to sign off the order to a senior civil servant.

So are you actually in the market for a new car or did you just go for your £20?