$3.00 a gallon for gas!!!!

On Sun, 23 May 2004 18:17:55 -0700, "Gumby619" wrote something wonderfully witty:

And I can't afford not to.

I have been told I am not allowed to use a broadsword to disprove ?The Pen is Mightier than the sword?.

Here in Finland 95e costs 1.199e / litre, it's about 1.5usd/litre. And one gallon is little over 3.5 litres. Gas prices are really going up, there in the USA too. =( We all have to get use to it that oil is vanishing natural resource, soon gas costs more than a bottle of booze.

AK

On Mon, 24 May 2004 04:00:56 GMT, "ak" wrote something wonderfully witty:

Fortunately I don't drink gas. Most of the world has paid way more then the US for petrol for a very long time now. The upside to that is they have alternative forms of transportation available for use. Here in the US we do not. Our primary means of transportation has always been the automobile.

Our primary transportation investments have been in our national highway systems. In most of Europe it is cheaper to travel via some form of mass transit then private automobile, and in most major cities easier as well. The exact opposite is true in the US.

During a recent trip to Europe, Italy & England, I had no use at all for a private conveyance. I was able to travel quite easily via rail, air, bus, and the occasional taxi much easier then here in the US. My only option of getting to work daily is by private car. There is no other way. I consume at a minimum two gallons of fuel a day just getting to & fro work. A light rail system could very easily be built along the corridor I travel to work. However, no one will ever make the investment because until gas is $10.00 a gallon people won't use it. Old habits will die very hard here in the US. I have been told I am not allowed to use a broadsword to disprove ?The Pen is Mightier than the sword?.

That *isn't* what is driving the prices up. Supply and demand determine price and the global supply is artificially controlled by a cartel called OPEC - see:

In a more local context, gasoline prices may be influenced by production capacity of refineries. Even if you have an unlimited supply of crude, a shortage of refining capacity can limit the supply on a regional basis. This is especially acute in California where the gasoline formulation is unique among the 50 states.

Dana

Yes that's true, but it's always question here in Finland why people don't use public transportation. In big cities on south there is a lot of possibilities but in country side (northern Finland) own car is only way to get from place to another. Still we have to pay same gas prices than southern people, it's really not fair. In future all kind of enviromental taxes etc will rise prices even more, we just have to get use to it that cars with big engines will be gone in future and have to drive stupid looking cars with electric etc engine. I personally have to cars, 4 cylinder "family sedan" and 1966 V8 Mustang and even now I have to think how much to drive Mustang. It's very fun to drive but gas prices keep me driving only a couple of days in week (on summer). World is changing, long gone are days in 60's =(

AK

P.S Companies have always reason to rise gas prices, low dollar course,middle east situation, driving season in USA.... P.S2. Sorry about my bad english... =(

On Tue, 25 May 2004 06:12:55 GMT, "ak" wrote something wonderfully witty:

It is a hell of a lot better then my Finnish. Another reason for the price here in the US is refining capacity. All of our refineries are at 100% production. Our consumption is just higher then it has ever been.

Is gasoline being shipped from Venezuela at it's historical levels? IIRC those taps were turned off earlier this year due to Venezuelan domestic problems and that these imports represented a very significant proportion of the US gasoline supply.

On Wed, 26 May 2004 02:14:31 GMT, "Richard" wrote something wonderfully witty:

Don't know about that. I was only speaking about our domestic capability.

The main problem with the gasoline supply is America's antiquated and insufficient refining capacity. With demand at record levels, even if the rest of the planet ships lots more oil, it won't do much to the price at this time.

On 26 May 2004 13:29:53 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com (Richard) wrote something wonderfully witty:

It is the end result of a lot of NIMBY mind sets that we have in this country.

No new refineries have been built in the US in the past 25 years. And petroleum industry experts say anyone would have to be crazy to launch such an effort -- even though present refineries are running at nearly

100 % of capacity and local gasoline shortages are beginning to crop up.

Why does the industry appear to have built its last refinery? Three reasons: Refineries are not particularly profitable, environmentalists fight planning and construction every step of the way and government red-tape makes the task all but impossible. The last refinery built in the US was in Garyville, Louisiana, and it started up in 1976.

Energy proposed building a refinery near Portsmouth, Virginia, in the late 1970s, environmental groups and local residents fought the plan

-- and it took almost nine years of battles in court and before federal and state regulators before the company canceled the project in 1984. What was built in its place? A Refuse Derived Fuel processing plant that turns Municipal Waste (garbage) into fuel for a power plant.

Industry officials estimate the cost of building a new refinery at between $ 2 bn and $ 4 bn -- at a time the industry must devote close to $ 20 bn over the next decade to reducing the sulphur content in gasoline and other fuels -- and approval could mean having to collect up to 800 different permits. As if those hurdles weren't enough, the industry's long-term rate of return on capital is just 5 % -- less than could be realized by simply buying US Treasury bonds. "I'm sure that at some point in the last 20 years someone has considered building a new refinery, but they quickly came to their senses.

I heard that there won't be any next year from V anyway because of our sulfur restrictions. I work in the industry, but that doesn't mean it's true. I just heard it at work. I'm sure they could meet our limits if they wanted to badly enough.

Snipped long and very informative note

I agree, and they won't be apologizing. There are a lot of political/business interests that want the price of gas to go up, because it helps their pet cause. The environmentalists, I think, will be happy if there's not enough gas. Somebody will have to stay home. There seems to be a rising tide of hatred for American consumption everywhere (even at home) and all those folks will be happy if there's not enough gas. Refineries haven't made much money at all historically, but of course they're raking it in right now.

I have read several news reports that state many Big Oil refineries that have been closed down in order to reduce capacity and boost the price of gasoline.

Greedy bastards.

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I can't take European griping over the price of gas seriously. When your governments take advantage of you by taxing it so highly, you never do anything to seriously oppose it. Hence, England has the North Sea oil fields and yet still pays a fortune for gas. In some instances this is ok, you have decent public transit infrastructures, distances are generally far shorter (in country) than you would travel if you lived in the U.S., but it does create a permanent underclass who simply can't afford (ever) to drive a car.

-Rich

I have heard the same thing, but I also heard that the oil companies have no incentive to upgrade and reopen refineris, because at the lower prices they can't afford to do it. Of course in light of the billions of dollars that the CEOs receive I tend to doubt that.

In Las Vegas over the past week it seems to have come down by about 10c a gallon in a lot of gas stations.How is it everywhere else ?

Andrew

I have heard the same thing, but I also heard that the oil companies have no incentive to upgrade and reopen refineris, because at the lower prices they can't afford to do it. Of course in light of the billions of dollars that the CEOs receive I tend to doubt that.

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