NG Poll: Mustang Horsepower > Blown Or Grown?

I've asked this before, but lately the question seems to have become more relevent. This is why. We've all heard about Chrysler's new Hemi. Well, I've been doing some reading up on this mill, and it appears this new Hemi is truly a state-of-the-art powerplant. So much so that one of these rags, with a known Chevy bias, wrote something to the affect of 'if we were in the market for a truck we'd buy a Ram instead of a Chevy just so we'd get the Hemi.' High praise, indeed!

- I was also reading the new Hemi could be grown to almost 400 cubes.

- Then there's Chevy. We all know the LS1s/LS6s are VERY formidable V8s. And now with the new C6 Corvette motor, Chevy's V8 has grown from 346 cubes to a more muscular 364.

- Meanwhile, Ford has been sticking with the 4.6's 281 cubes, and only used the 5.4's 331 cubes in a Mustang in the '00 Cobra R. However, Ford has been teasing the press with V10 Mustangs, and recently released a 5.0 mod crate motor.

So here are the questions. The Top 10!

1) Should the rumored upcoming Boss Mustang sport a modular 5.0, making it a Boss 302? Think 10.0 - 11:0 compression and a 7,000 rpm redline.

2) Should future, if continued (should it be?), Mach 1 Mustangs come with a 5.4?

3) Should the next Cobra be powered by a V10?

Or:

4) Do you think Ford should continue to "hone" the current 4.6? After all, the current Mach 1 has a pretty rompin' motor right now.

5) Should the current Cobra's blown 4.6 just be pressurized a little more for more horsepower? Besides, it's strong enough to take more boost, and all the development work on this mill has been paid for.

6) What should power the next R model?

Unrelated V6 questions:

7) Should Ford produce a HiPo V6 Mustang? The V6 Mustang has very clean looks, and the new V6 appears to be world's better than the out-going V6.

8) If they were to build a HiPo V6 'Stang, how much horsepower should it get (202HP/235TQ is standard), and where should it slot into the line up?

9) Between the standard V6 and the standard GT, or should a HiPo V6 Mustang really be pushed to the edge to show those import guys Ford can do great things with less than 8 cylinders?

10) If built, what should they call this HiPo V6 Mustang?

Bonus questions:

- It appears there will be a new Shelby Mustang.

11) Should a Shelby Mustang be the Mustang lineup's "top stallion", or should the SVT Cobra Mustang rein supreme?

12) Where should a Shelby Mustang fit into the lineup?

13) Should the Shelby Mustang BE the next R model?

Really think about these questions and then give us your thoughts.

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

Reply to
Patrick
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How about a blown 5.0 with lower compression ?

nah, let's keep them where they are now.

too heavy. Just look at what they can do by supercharging now. Should be fast enough. Instead of focusing on power they need to keep the weight down more.

hone ? as in 5.0 ? sure, why not.

yeah, it can do it. There's people out there making 700hp with it.

The Ford-GT motor.

nah, lets keep the v6 for entry level models. Make it fast enough to keep up with the average jap econobox. It's kind of embarassing to be beaten by a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry don't you think ?

nope

nope

rice-burner ?

Keep the Cobra name. IT is recognized now, so why change it ?

if they call it that, it would be where the current cobra is now.

nah.

Overall I see dark clouds on the horizon. What will happen with all these power cars when the gas prices will hit $3 or more ? Will we see another collapse like in the 70's ? Perhaps Ford should make a breakthru by building some Hybrid mustang that will really kick ass when using the gas+electric engine but can also get very good mpg if you take it easy. Have Ford build the first hybrid muscle car...? I really don't know how far this is feasible but I'd buy it.

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Reply to
Rein

I'll take a stab at this...

That would be cool. I like the idea of a factory modular 5.0.

I think ford should keep it simple, base V6, V8 GT, V8 limited edition, V8 SVT. If they do a Boss Mustang this would fill the limited edition spot and the Mach name should be dropped for a while.

Not the SVT Cobra, if it's called that, The Carrol Shelby Cobra should get it and be the Viper fighter.

That modular 5.0 idea for the Boss could be built and supercharged with a twin screw for the SVT Mustang.

Twin screw 5.0!

Tough one! With the horsepower war it will be hard to make it significantly more powerful than what's already out there, it will need to be light and handle like no other Mustang ever built.

Naw, leave the performance to the V8 but keep the V6 a sporty alternative.

It needs improved fuel economy to help Fords CAFE numbers so we can have our high horsepower15 mpg V8's.

Save the Hipo V6 for sporty 2 seaters.

I think the SVT Mustang should stay as the top of the line limited production model with a very limited "R" every few years. I like the clean, no stickers or stripes look of the current Cobras and wouldn't want Shelby stripes all over a new SVT Mustang. If Ford wants a Shelby Mustang it needs to be the special edition between the GT and SVT.

Reply to
Mike King

As I understand it, the biggest problem with putting a larger-displacement engine in a Mustang is shock tower and hood clearance. It's already tight with the 4.6's. Cylinder walls on the 4.6's are also pretty thin, so widening the bore won't get it. Forced induction is one answer, but it is expensive.

I like the V-10 solution. Make it longer instead of wider by adding 2 more cylinders. If they applied existing intake runner metering and variable-valve timing technology to this, low-end torque would be as equally impressive as the high-end horsepower. Use an aluminum block to keep the weight where it is now, and sit back and watch sales skyrocket.

Of course, this all costs money, and I'm sure we're not all willing to pay $30K+ for a GT with a V-10, but it's nice to think about. I'd pay up if it were a factory special-order option.

Ideally, I'd like to see:

  • Base model coupes with a 300 hp. 4.6L V-8 in the K range.

  • GT models with 350 hp. V-10's in the K range.

  • Cobra models with a 425 hp. V-10/Blower combination in the K+ range.

All should come with a decent sport suspension and solid 8.8" rear axles. The stereo and wing should be optional - these are DRIVER'S cars after all.

Regards,

-JD

--------------------------------- JD's Locally-Famous Mustang Page: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams---------------------------------

Reply to
JD Adams

It's nice but think of it. The block is longer. Because it is longer it will stick more forward in the engine bay. This will offset the front'rear weight distribution more. I also don't know if the weight can stay the same by using aluminum. I'd be for it if the handling won't suffer. It would be an expensive engine though.

Sounds good to me, but where are the V6 moneymakers for Ford ? Remember, lots of mustangs are sold to people who don't even know how many cylinders the car has.

I think they should also have some optional performance package for the Cobra in that case. A blown v10 should be able to do much more than 425.

yup.. Offer a stripped down version to reduce weight. Or offer an empty 'shell' that pre-wired for everything so you can install what YOU would want.

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Reply to
Rein

The Boss needs a N/A high winding V-8 that carves the corners. The 5.0 cammer engine would be a good option but its cost may be too prohibitive. Also, IMO, 11.0:1 compression is really stretching it.

I'm not expecting the 5.4L mod motor to show up in any new Mustang. I think it presents packaging issues from the taller deck height. It also raises the center of gravity and hurts handling. I would take a 4.6L with a twin screw blower over a N/A 5.4L ever time.

Too expensive assuming you mean a Mustang Cobra. I expect it to have the current 4.6L 4V engine with a twin screw in place of the Root's blower. Twin screw and Root's blowers make cheap horsepower and tons of low/mid range torque. You would need 500 N/A cubic inches of displacement to matter the torque capability of the current Cobra engines. Plus smaller displacement engines give better emissions and mileage numbers.

Yes, it adds to the 4.6L's "history" like the 302 had "history". It is a very capable engine and the only way to get the after market fired up is to continue using it. It is flexible and has proved itself to be a very capable engine.

Two words, "Twin Screw". That is all the next cobra engine needs to be a complete ass kicker.

The V-10.

No but they should offer after market parts to make it an import killer on a budget. This also keeps the insurance rate low for the budget conscious.

No HiPo motor from the factory but a good 250 rwhp using after market part would be nice.

See above.

"The 350Z Killer for Half the Price"

Only if it has a really exotic power plant like the V-10. Otherwise give it the position of the current Mach with its drive train with a T-56 tranny.

See above.

No, I think putting the Shelby Cobra concept into production pays enough respect to old Carroll.

You got'em.

Reply to
Michael Johnson, PE

Make the Shelby GT500 with the V10, Shelby GT350 with the 5.4, Boss 302 with the 5.0 mod motor, Cobra with the same motor, Mach 1 with the same motor, GT with 24V motor. Base V8 'Stang with 16V motor. All with optional supercharger. Then make the new V6 the economy 'Stang. And voila'- Bring back the SVO turbo 4cyl with IRS!!!! This could compete directly with the rice-burners and hand them their asses.

Scott W. '66 Mustang HCS '68 Ranchero 500 '68 Fury III

Reply to
Scott Williams

A hybrid?? You worry about the weight of a V10 and suggest they install how many pounds of batteries instead?

As far as the magazines are concerned........ let's just say that we have typists trying to sell rags and leave it at that.

Reply to
Jim Warman
** Sounds good to me, but where are the V6 moneymakers for Ford ? ** Remember, lots of mustangs are sold to people who don't even know how ** many cylinders the car has.

After I finished laughing, the sad realization that you were absolutely right sank in. I'd hate to alienate the morons from the profit equation.

Reply to
JD Adams

Hey, for all I care they come out with 4 cylinder mustangs as base models. As long as that makes it possible to bring out fun models like the cobra at an affordable price I won't care at all ! Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Reply to
Rein
** Hey, for all I care they come out with 4 cylinder mustangs as base ** models. As long as that makes it possible to bring out fun models like ** the cobra at an affordable price I won't care at all ! ** Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

This is true. Without the sheep, we get no wool. On top of that, the fake badging industry would collapse.

Regards,

-JD

--------------------------------- JD's Locally-Famous Mustang Page: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams---------------------------------

Reply to
JD Adams

Reply to
Garth Almgren

You could always claim you thought it said "3.8" instead of "5.8" :-)

JS

Reply to
JS

Heh, yeah. Actually, I was looking at the replica 3.8 badges, but I figured it would be kinda pointless: A) I *like* the clean look (minimal badges, no spoiler or "ground effects", no flashy wheels or contrasting stickers, etc.), and B) Why advertise? If I wanted to do that, why not just get a windshield banner that says "Powered by 112 lame horses!" :)

Reply to
Garth Almgren

I was thinking a high-winding n/a motor like the original Boss 302 cars.

Think about this though. The current Cobra mill has an IRON block WITH a supercharger. Would an aluminum block V10 weigh more? I'd bet the V10 would be lighter, and probably cheaper.

By "hone", I meant squeeze more housepower out of the 4.6.

I like that idea!

Well then the V6 is going to need more power becuase the current Accord V6 runs about 95-96 mph in the 1/4.

I'm surprised no one is interested in a HiPo V6 model. Slot in just under the regular GT. Give it about 250 horses, a 20K price tag and call it something like "Mustang Rally-6".

A 6 is cheaper to insure than a V8. So a sported-up 6 model might get some _young_ import buyers to buy a Mustang.

I guess you're not a fan of the ol' SVOs, huh?

I think everyone who owns a Mustang knows of Shelby Mustangs.

I'd like to see the next Shelby be a stripped-down bargin basement club racer, a modern day LX 5.0. But that's NOT going to happen. It'll be exclusive and expensive, I just know it.

We've had some recent price spikes and so far they haven't changed our habit one bit. SUVs continue to sell at a record pace, V8s/V10s are getting more popular by the day, and people are driving faster than ever.

I really don't see a collapse like the 70's happening again. Our technology is too good now. Multi-valve engines, fuel injection, 5,6, and 7 speed transmissions, advanced aerodynamics, light-weight composites, turbochargers, and soon a return of displacement on demand systems will limit the damage of any collapse.

If the market asks for it, they'll build it.

Patrick '93 Cobra

Reply to
Patrick

"Patrick" wrote

Me 2.

I am. They oughta bring back a 4 banger turbo and name it the SVO. Comp Prepped, these cars trampled the 5.0 cars and ate the euro-trashes lunch.

As if...

How bout the new Bowtie v-8 engine that shuts down half the cylinders when highway cruising???

Scott W. '66 Mustang HCS '68 Ranchero 500 '68 Fury III

Reply to
Scott Williams

yeah, but.. The savings aren't that great really. Plus time will tell if it is reliable with this attempt. I think GM tried it before on a Cadillac and it was a failure.

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Reply to
Rein

They did way back in the '70's. It was called the Cadillac V8-6-4 and it didn't work worth a crap. However, with today's technology displacement-on-demand should work MUCH better.

Patrick '93 Cobra

Reply to
Patrick

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