OT: Zap-X

Screw hybrids. Here's where we should be going:

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Battery technology is where the R&D $$ should be going...

Reply to
Joe
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And what exactly will you use to generate the electric to charge the batteries? Oil perhaps? Nuclear? Solar panels? Wind Generator in your back yard?

Better Bet is Alcohol or bio diesel, what you don't burn you can eat.

Reply to
Les Benn

I agree 100%. It is the ONLY thing keeping viable electric cars from the average Joe's garage. We have all the other technology in place and much of it is already in the hybrids that are for sale today.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

"Les Benn" wrote in news:wcNmi.503808$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe10.phx:

That's a global question that goes way beyond vehicles. Since we're talking about vehicles here, all-electric is the obvious, realistic solution.

Regardless of what it burns, the internal combustion engine is just too inefficient to be considered at all.

Reply to
Joe

Michael Johnson wrote in news:EICdnT72W7FFNQbbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Exactly. It's only a question of time before we see vehicles like the Zap-X on the road.

Also, it would be way cool to experience the torque curve (really a straight line) of all-electric. I can easily see all-electric econoboxes wiping GT500s, Corvettes, and Vipers off the map. ;)

Reply to
Joe

You just answered why electric cars are better and didn't even realize it. Where are you going to get a gallon of gasoline? Only from an oil company. You just listed four means of getting electricity. Two of those can be generated by the end user. There are other options you didn't list such as geothermal, tides, ocean currents, etc. to generate electricity. That is why electric cars are going to be the best thing to happen for the environment, and the consumer, since the advent of the automobile.

Also, just think of the maintenance involved with an internal combustion engine (includes biodiesel and alcohol) verses an electric motor. You have transmission fluid, used oil, antifreeze, miscellaneous lubricants, etc. With electric motors there is virtually nothing to maintain. An electric car is basically maintenance free. Even braking can be done by the motors to regenerate the batteries. Electric cars are the future.

Using food resources to produce energy is a HORRIBLE idea. Would you rather eat or drive a car? Read the article at the link I provided below. This is just the tip of the iceberg if we allow food resources to be diverted to energy production.

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Reply to
Michael Johnson

Not to mention the handling. The control of power delivery in a four wheel drive electric car will be amazing. Plus the center of gravity can be very low to the ground etc. I hope these cars get here soon. I'm getting old you know. ;)

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Michael Johnson wrote in news:sPCdnWoCtP0pMQbbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Tell me about it!

You're right - handling will be awesome. The batteries will be the major "heavy" components, as the motors will be in the wheels. And the batteries can be spread out front to rear in any configuration, giving the vehicle a far better weight distribution than it has now.

Reply to
Joe

The most recent study for a gasoline substitute says that the maximum use of corn will only cover 10% of our energy needs. And that, we can't grow near enough corn to cover the needs.

One of the factors often ignored in the equation is transportation, and the other is higher food costs as more farmers switch crops to bio fuel crops.

Reply to
Spike

Reply to
Les Benn

I can show you places in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Illinois that has farm land sitting idle for decades now. I did not even mention the land in the desert south west that is totally empty. If in American, you have a need there are people who will rise to the occasion and fulfill the need. What bio diesel and alcohol do is make it profitable to grow crops again on idle land. And BTW Corn is not the best bet for bio diesel some weeds do a better job of producing what we need. I would wager that if there was a market for bio fuels there would be a huge jump in farming again. For you younger guys farms is where most of us old guys grew up.

Reply to
Les Benn

You're making blanket statements that just aren't true. Wind generators can be placed where they don't bother anyone or some people may not be bothered with them in their backyard. The choice of power source with electric cars is much more flexible than petroleum powered ones. How many gallons of gasoline does one set of batteries equal over their lifetime of use?. Much more than the petroleum used to make them. Plus, when the life of the batteries is over they can be recycled. You aren't going to recycle any of the gasoline you would have burned over the same period. I'm sorry but your reasons against going to electric cars just don't add up. As the price of gas rises the use of electric cars become more feasible and more likely.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

"Les Benn" wrote in news:F56ni.77057$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe22.lga:

Now, who y'all callin' "young" there, Les?

Reply to
Joe

"Les Benn" wrote in news:0_5ni.77052$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe22.lga:

Well, Shee-it, Les. Y'all gotta get with it. It's the 21st century now...

Reply to
Joe

question gets back to how do you make the batteries? you use fossil fuels to melt the ores then fossil fuels to make the plastic then fossil fuels to make the parts for the electrical generators. Nothing is made free. there is no battery fairy that makes batteries.

Reply to
Les Benn

lol say it all together now.. I believe in the electric generator fairy!!

Reply to
Les Benn

"Les Benn" wrote in news:ZV8ni.38019$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe17.lga:

Now you're talking about generating power on a national (or global) scale, not just replacing fossil fuel for motor vehicles. Different thing altogether.

Battery fairy - I like it. A distant cousin to the Engergizer bunny? ;)

Reply to
Joe

SNIP

I'm an "old guy".

I'm all for bio fuels, and anything else we can do (short of the government mandating I can no longer drive my 65 FB).

But, from all that I have read and heard, too many people think bio fuels will save us and cut our dependence on foreign oil, when it is an illusion.

More efficient plants, there are, but the big push is for corn. The question is how man corn plants does it take to make a gallon of bio, and how many plants can a particular size piece of land produce, and how often.

As for the desert... fly over southern California and you see huge green circular patches of alfalpha. About anything will grow in the desert, as long as you can pour the water to it. Therein lies a problem. As the populations grow (legal and or illegal) there is less and less weater available for crops. Once the Colorado River flowed all the way to the sea. No more. It now disappears before ever reaching the sea.

Farmers may switch to crops which pay, at the expense of crops which don't. If they do, what will the people eat? What will the livestock be fed? And for those farmers who might continue to produce food crops because the prices are up, where are the consumers who will be able to afford to buy them?

Too many people think there is a simple answer to a problem; in this case bio fuel; and don't look at the BIG picture. Much like a union which goes on strike for higher wages. A simple thing. Yet while out on strike they are paid strike wages which will require the coffers to be refilled. They forget that the company doesn't pay the new wage. It passes the cost on to it's customers in higher prices. And who are the customers? The people who went on strike for higher wages. Meanwhile, every business which those strikers patronize see they are getting a higher wage, and they raise their prices. That puts a burden on those who didn't get a pay increase. Now they see a need to go on strike for higher wages in order to afford the new costs they face.

Has anything been really gained?

PS: I'm an "old guy" :0)

Reply to
Spike

Plus the batteries can be placed low to the ground thus lowering the center of gravity. It is a low center of gravity that lets go-carts zip around 90 degree turns at 80+ mph. Talk about freeing up a designer's and engineer's imagination.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

My guess is that if biofuels aren't subsidized they will likely never be economically feasible. It takes a lot of energy (beyond sunlight) to plant, grow and harvest an acre of corn. Then it takes even more energy to turn it into biofuel and deliver it to the end user. Transporting electricity is efficient, fast and much of the grid is here today. The other thing I really like about using electricity is that eventually science will have the fusion process understood. The power plants based on fusion are basically like current fission based plants except the fuel used is different (and has no radioactive byproducts) but they produce huge quantities of electricity very efficiently. Fusion powered plants may not happen in our lifetime but it will happen. When it does electricity will be cheap and plentiful and nothing has to change regarding our automobiles or energy delivery system.

I see electricity as the lowest common denominator for different varieties of power. We can generate electricity using numerous power sources and when utilized by the end user it is absolutely clean. IMO, it is the future for meeting 95% of our energy needs and where we are headed in the long term. The other thing that is great about electricity is how it is generated. It basically comes from thin air. It materializes by moving wire through a magnetic field. You don't dig it out of the ground, pump it from a hole thousands of feet deep, chop down a tree etc. If we can get to the point of viable fusion to provide the mechanical energy to spin the wire then we have achieved a truly cheap, plentiful and non polluting renewable energy resource.

Somehow I got up on this soap box and it is time to get off. You can probably see that I think electricity and fusion is the eventual savior of mankind. :)

This is the reason I don't like this whole idea of biofuels. Is there any more valuable resources than the ones that feeds us and gives us fresh water. Just the little biofuel production being done today is pitting pressure on food prices. It will be far worse if we ramp up biofuel production enough to meet just 5% of our energy needs.

I read an article where the U.N. says it is getting to the point where they can't afford to feed the world's poor. Think of the impact higher food costs will have on food aid delivered to Africa and elsewhere or the impact of higher food prices on lower income people in this country.

Plus, there will come a point when the top soil is depleted and growing anything will be very difficult. I can't justify this just to fill up my gas tank. Electric cars use a power source that can be generated by anyone. Instead of massive electric plants we could have tens of millions of smaller generating units using a multitude of power sources. The great thing about this is each one can feed the electrical grid as well as draw from it. As they feed the grid they get credits and as they use power the credits are spent.

I think we would be surprised at how many people would invest in systems that generate electricity on-site. The system you use will likely depend on where you live. As the market develops the price will come down and more technological advancements will occur to compete for the buyer's dollars. The move electric cars and on-site power generation could happen fast or slow but I think many people like the idea of being more self sufficient. I know I would seriously consider an all electric car if one were available that met my needs. From what I can see all it will take to make it happen is better battery technology.

Damn, I found that soap box again.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

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