I can see the submicronic bypass oil filters like Frantz, Motor Guard
> and Gulf Coast getting more and more popular as people get more wise
> to the system of using filters that don't clean oil then draining the
> oil after it gets dirty wear and fouls the engines, transmissions,
> fuel injection systems, water pumps, etc.
> I was lucky to learn about submicronic bypass filters over 40 years
> ago. It hurts to see thousands of filters in an auto parts store and
> none of them that clean oil.
>
> Ralph
Filter only removes dirt, on whatever scale you'd like to look at it. Additives in the oil breakdown over time. That's why you need to change the oil. No level of filtering is going to bring back the additives. BTW...do you know what a submicron filter would cost? Compare to this...I priced a 1 micron absolute rated filter cartridge for an industrial filter housing the other day. For a ~20" X ~4" cartridge ONLY, it was $289 - no housing yet. Tell me if you'd even consider paying 10% of that for a filter. You pay less in a regular filter and oil change.
Ralph Wood opined in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:
I'm sorry Ralph... that is a crock of S***!
There are GOOD filters and bad filters... it doesnt take much internet research to find which are better.
There are GOOD oils and not-so-good oils... and if you use your head, you can figger out which are lying just based on their own advertising.
And the engines of 40 years ago were due for an overhaul at 150K, no matter the maintenance . Today, that's just mature.
So take your AmWay-type argument elsewhere. The "Interest" you cite is from "Biters" who are always willing to believe that big corporations are plotting against them, personally.
And who usually have NO idea of the REAL operating conditions in the engine.
Why don't you just answer the question? Or are you afraid of where it will lead?
----------------- Jim '88 LX 5.0 (now in car heaven) '89 LX 5.0 vert '99 GT 35th Anniversery Edition - Silver Mods to date - Relocated trunk release to drivers side, shortened throttle cable.
It's a simple question. It's not important whether you believe it would take a miracle for it happen. Assume divine intervention if that makes you happy. Just answer this VERY simple question..
If the oil in an engine, regardless of what kind of filter was on it, was as clean after 6000 miles as the day you put the oil in it, would you believe that the filter was filtering out everything solid?
Once we establish what can be accomplished thru divine intervention we can move back to things closer to home.
----------------- Jim '88 LX 5.0 (now in car heaven) '89 LX 5.0 vert '99 GT 35th Anniversery Edition - Silver Mods to date - Relocated trunk release to drivers side, shortened throttle cable.
Starting to sound like a philosophical question...... a certain amount of solids will precipitate fromt the oil and settle to the bottom of the pan. Other solids will be too small to be collected by the filter (the size depends on the filter medium but will not be 0.0 microns. It will be bigger than the oil molecule size).
Obviously, you have an ulterior motive...... just as obviously, using oil "colour" as an indication of clean is foolish. Laying your hands upon the hood of the car and repeating your mantra *may* help. Stuffing a roll of toilet paper into the system is a sure winner.
Anecdotally, oil may 'appear' clean.... molecularly, it wont be clean..... I don't see your point and you are becoming tiresome. This is all physics and no magic...... Noting is forever - things wear out and human growth hormone is an advertising ploy.
It's best to start at the philosophical level and progress from there.
That's a nice try at changing the subject but has nothing to do with the question asked.
Again, a nice try at changing the subject but that too has nothing to do with the question asked.
There is nothing ulterior about my motive. I'm trying to explore the claim that one type of filter can't be as good or better as some other type. To do that, we must first agree on what it means to "filter" an oil and how we judge which filter is working best. Just to get there we need to agree or else disagree, that if one type of filter keeps the oil cleaner then another filter and if the only thing either filter claims to do is remove particles, that the filter that keeps the oil cleaner must be doing a better job of removing particles. Is there some reason you don't agree with that?? Just to make sure you understand the question, if one oil is dirtier then the other and the only difference between how they are used and treated is the kind of filtering they get, would you agree or not that the oil that's cleanest is getting filtered better, i.e. more particles are being removed from the oil.
.. just as obviously, using oil
Nowhere in my original question did I talk about color. I'm not talking about any aspect of oil color. I'm only talking about one oil reaching 6000 miles and being cleaner then the other oil. Both started out the same color, both were operated under the exact same conditions, and now one of them still has the original color and the other has gotten darker, what most people would call dirty looking. The ONLY thing different is the filters used. Not the operating conditions, not the type of engine, not the oil change interval, not the type of oil, not the viscosity. Every thing is the same, only the filters are different.
Laying your hands upon the
It's you who seems to assume I'm referring to some specific type of filter. As I said at the start, I don't care what kind of filters are being compared, all you need to know is that they are different kinds, Filter type A, and Filter type B.
I never said anything about the oils condition at the molecular level. I'm only talking about suspended particles. Once we determine which type of filter, type A or type B, removes the greatest amounts of suspended particles, then we can explore whether there is some reason why one type of filter would cause the oil to change at the molecular level if you wish.
And your comments have nothing to do with the question asked. No one is proposing a magic filter in this question. I have not even said what kind of specific filters are involved.
It's a VERY simple question about how "clean", in terms of suspended solids, a filter can keep an oil. The oil when new and factory clean would have had few enough and small enough solids that it was transparent. As it becomes less clean it becomes less and less transparent due to either more particles of dirt and/or larger particles of dirt (suspended solids).
So the simple, one sentence question remains....
If the oil in an engine, regardless of what kind of filter was on it, was as clean after 6000 miles as the day you put the oil in it, would you believe that the filter was filtering out everything solid?
----------------- Jim '88 LX 5.0 (now in car heaven) '89 LX 5.0 vert '99 GT 35th Anniversery Edition - Silver Mods to date - Relocated trunk release to drivers side, shortened throttle cable.
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