for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

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If the vehicles belong to them, they can do WTF they desire with them...

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C'mon, jim. It's a great way to get your hands dirty and have a few beers.

Another one into the killfile bucket along with the cross poster.

If you drive your car like a fleet vehicle than this might apply. If you are the typical driver you better stick to the manufacturer's recommendation.

3M miles on 120 vehicles averages to 25K miles per vehicle. What's that, about a year on a fleet vehicle? That's supposed to be convincing?

when i posted this - i was thinking of the people that do what their granddaddy did, even though combustion technology, fuels, oils and engine metallurgy are dramatically different these days. i was hoping to enlighten, but i guess i'd forgotten just how rigidly proud some people are of their ignorance and ability to keep their head stuck firmly in that sand.

next time you get sick, doubtless you're going to resort to burning camphor and bread poultices. those "doctor" people and their new-fangled "technology" and "drugs" clearly don't know what they're doing.

The article linked above is a good read and helps reinforce my belief about going with the manufacturer's recommendations on oil change intervals, or even longer.

The owner's manual for my 2003 Civic says to change the oil every 10k miles or every year, whichever comes first, using 5W20 non-synthetic, and assuming no extreme conditions, per what is explained to be "extreme" in the owner's manual.

The wikipedia entry for "motor oil" talks about how oil standards have changed, driving the increasing interval over the decades.

I could give a shit less about oil analysis. Toyota tells me when to change my oil. THEY are the authority, in my case, because they warranty my engine.

Well, if someone else paid for the oil analysis I wouldn't mind running the oil until the magic numbers said to change the oil. I like my mom's Buick, the computer tells her when to get the oil changed. It didn't tell her to get the manifold gasket changed that started leaking but I'm sure GM is working on a sensor for that.

That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people drive in severe conditions.

On Mar 30, 10:17 am, jim beam wrote: snip

well, he "changed" oil by adding when it was a quart or two low.

enlighten? Jim, you never enlighten, you issue directives.

generally, drug researchers don't make unqualified long term claims based on short term tests.

let me put it another way; you'd have to be an idiot to believe you can project the results from a year test on fleet vehicles to 10 years or more of normal passenger car use. not to mention folks in cold country are rightfully skeptical of tests conducted in CA.

are you familiar with engineering personality disorder?

just kidding....

superstition beats science every time - there's /always/ some superstitious excuse.

nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in.

Because as everyone knows, even you, there's bang for the buck to consider.

Thanks for your hyperbole, anyway.

Just ask the folks who are holding their breaths to get on a jury for a Toyota lawsuit, so they can justify their superstition by awarding a huge settlement to people who are CLEARLY the victims of cosmic rays banging on their ECUs and gas pedals.

Yep. Like my dad.

And Honda's computer indicates somewhere between 5K and 6K oil changes.

So why do you care? That is really the much more interesting question.

I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day. Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too often? Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without comment?

The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to black engine oil?

-jim

ooooh, "black oil" is evil!!!

dude, have you ever worked on diesels? those things have "black oil" almost instantly. what then - change the oil every 500 miles? or are you going to bother to bust open a can of brains, figure out what matters based on research and learn that "black oil" doesn't mean a damned thing?

here's how it works: combustion produces, among other things, soot. soot is black. i'm sure you're with me so far. but, oil lubrication in a car engine uses something called "hydrodynamic separation". simply, that means the metal bits in a car don't actually touch, they are separated by an oil film. that oil film has a measurable thickness

if your soot particles are small enough to "fit" in the hydrodynamic film, the metals surfaces don't even know they're there. and that's the job of the oil filter - to makes sure that the big particles are trapped and only the harmless stuff flows through.

beyond that, if the oil is chemically and thermally stable, and has the chemical ingredients to handle other combustion products like acid, and the filter is working properly, "black oil" is actually an indication that the oil is doing its job properly - it is holding everything in suspension and continuing to flow.

that cosmic ray story was a typical microsoft bullshit excuse for writing crappy code. then came linux that didnt crash running on the same machine and yet another bullshit ignorant superstition was exploded.